jake
'Theory' rider
Posts: 11
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Post by jake on Feb 17, 2009 9:19:03 GMT 1
I will be the first to support the eviction of extremists or stirrers. But have not had the pleasure of meeting all my virtual biker mates and enjoy going off the bike rails occasionally. Interesting point….. Could be that there are a few biker’s on this forum who are actually Muslims. If your name is ‘Abdul’ rather than Tom or thingy it might give the game away…. (see link below). www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/columnists/john_gaunt/article2233396.eceDoesn’t mean they’re fundamentalists or extremists of course….. This whole issue kind of reminds of the way Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) was denied entry into the USA.
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Post by Jaz66 on Feb 17, 2009 13:53:28 GMT 1
Hi jake Re Read the post and not sure I get all your points Didn't see anything in Rj's posts to say otherwise. It was an open debate re Wilders visit, and Rj's contribution was thoughtful and considered Think the Sun reference was to... ok to let one speak but not the other..... I hope so! Black, brown, White, Male, female, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, ALL races, Nationalities, colours and creeds are are Welcome .......(But NO jehovahs witnesses!... ) and just like the many I work alongside and meet everyday 99.99% do not get involved in 'Extremism' Now i am confused, has Wilders converted..... or maybe not.... Could post more but or may be not...(d**n these typing fingers of mine... ;D ;D ;D
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Post by paulmason on Feb 17, 2009 15:34:38 GMT 1
Not sure that a motorcycle forum is really the place to discuss politics & religion (unless it actually relates to biking, that is) These two topics have caused so many conflicts & wars in the past ( & present!) that I think that we should keep well away from them on here!!!! Paul
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jake
'Theory' rider
Posts: 11
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Post by jake on Feb 17, 2009 16:03:18 GMT 1
Just trying to make the point Jaz, that any moderate Muslim who might be a member of this forum could be offended by some of the comments made… Also, the term ‘ethnic minority’ covers a multitude of sins …. Black British, Chinese British, Asian British, Arab British etc., Not all ethnic minorities are first generation immigrants….but for some people they’re all tarred with the same brush…. (Thinking of Prince Harry in this respect….) This is why I think it’s safer to avoid politics on a Bike forum, notwithstanding issues of free speech. But I also agree with Buzzin, there was no need for the Brit., government to exclude this right-wing politician…. There was even less need for the USA to exclude Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) from their country….
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Post by Hubcap on Feb 17, 2009 16:52:03 GMT 1
This topic can be discussed on a motorcycle forum, surely, if topics were only allowed to be motorcycle related we would soon run out of things to talk about.
To your comment about offending others, there are thousands of people of nationalities other than British, who offend British people every day in Britain, I don't understand why it only matters if we're the ones offending people.
But life's too short, so quit worrying about it and go do something you've always wanted to do.
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jake
'Theory' rider
Posts: 11
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Post by jake on Feb 17, 2009 17:34:31 GMT 1
To your comment about offending others, there are thousands of people of nationalities other than British, who offend British people every day in Britain, I don't understand why it only matters if we're the ones offending people. There are plenty of things to discuss on a bike forum other religion and politics....point taken. But if someone offends me I should return the compliment, right? After all I am 'British' and also a member of an ethnic minority....
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Post by Hubcap on Feb 17, 2009 17:39:55 GMT 1
Yes there are, but this one happened to get mentioned, it's not like you can plan what you'll be discussing tomorrow
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jake
'Theory' rider
Posts: 11
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Post by jake on Feb 17, 2009 17:52:03 GMT 1
True.....
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pongo
Restricted to 33BHP
Posts: 51
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Post by pongo on Feb 17, 2009 18:09:04 GMT 1
Paul, you're absolutely right, but there appear to be plenty of people contributing (me included) and generally agreement on freedom of speech etc. Seems quite a popular thread with 262 reading and growing. RJ has suggested that the thread is closed on Friday, so it is now limited for time and probably right as we're drifting off topic. I remain convinced the debate has been balanced, informed and I haven't read anything that I thought caused offence, but then I'm a white, working class male that only goes to (Church of England) church now and again and talk to my god only when I want something from him. Perhaps the thing we should ensure we do not do, is start falling out over what we do or do not discuss.
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Post by Jaz66 on Feb 18, 2009 1:57:37 GMT 1
Hi Paul, could be right, but it was a topic of conversation we might all of had in the pub or with friends (Should we ban him or let him speak...You decide ), Think the original point was if it was the right way for the government to have dealt with the problem of Wilders. Jake, would like to think we all thought before we posted and tried to avoid offence, but unfortunately some people can be offended no matter how hard we try, which would put almost every topic beyond discussion... for example the posts Re: Desert island could have been deemed offensive by some of the ladies on the forum. Does that mean we can only post pics that everyone approves of?..I hope not, I quite like the pics of the ladies... ;D ;D Hey Don't forget white irish..... and welsh...(edited for Micawber) And point taken. Being Flippant about cat stevens earlier, have to admit not sure why he was refused access to the states Hubcap. You are right, life is too short. We'll all get offended by some things as we go through life, whether British or otherwise, the only way to get through is to develop a thick skin, and good sense of humour... And Pongo Top post, no fault with it until I read... Church of England !!......you heathen... Every one knows RC's the Only religion worth having.... priests who understand how the Modern world works..... Drinking, Cursing and Fornicating..... ;D (although that may only be the Irish ones in 'Father Ted'... ) Btw, for a post that 'Shouldn't be on a Bike forum' it's been the most popular by far..... ;D ; (maybe we should raise 'recent posts' from 15 to 20 as I've started to miss posts due to the number of post being made on the forum? ) Maybe we are more Grown up, intelligent and willing to listen to others opinions then people give us credit for... maybe we're not 'Just' bikers.... NB. Post closes on friday.
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micawber
All Weather Rider, well hard
No longer lurking in the shrubbery.
Posts: 151
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Post by micawber on Feb 18, 2009 2:53:56 GMT 1
Oi! Do you mind? Speaking of minorities, I am part of an historically persecuted minority too. What with being Welsh, though living in exile in England. Mind you, if you were to ask the Scots, the Irish, even the Cornish about those dastardly English....? We can all find reasons to dislike groups, but when you know individuals it is different is it not? You can like or dislike individuals individually but to dislike a whole group? Why, some of my best friends are English!
Who said I had a balanced opinion? Is this a Motorcycling pun? I always thought bikers were an unstable lot myself (says he, climbing out of the hedge once again).
This thread should have been called:
The Never Ending It Has Gone On Long Enough Thread.
It seems to have a fatal attraction. Nobody can resist it, even though we end up digging holes for ourselves. Myself, I can't wait for Friday, even if it is just to save me from myself.
Micawber.
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jake
'Theory' rider
Posts: 11
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Post by jake on Feb 18, 2009 10:04:29 GMT 1
Perhaps the thing we should ensure we do not do, is start falling out over what we do or do not discuss. I think the reason for ending this topic on Friday is self evident….. it’s an infammatory subject on which people hold passionate views, hence it’s popularity…. But I never said that it shouldn’t be discussed on a bike forum, I said it’s best avoided mainly because it tends to sideline topics on bike-related issues, which it’s certainly succeeded in doing….. Jaz wrote: ‘Jake, would like to think we all thought before we posted and tried to avoid offence, but unfortunately some people can be offended no matter how hard we try, which would put almost every topic beyond discussion...’ Let’s be clear about this Jaz, the issue was religion and politics not a discussion about a ‘desert island’ (must have missed that one)…..and I was not talking about banning a ‘pub’ discussion on this subject or banning this subject from the forum….. The issue of free speech allows us the ‘freedom’ to take and give offense if we so choose….so once this subject arises, any form of censorship is pointless. Jaz also wrote… ‘for a post that 'Shouldn't be on a Bike forum' it's been the most popular by far.....’But once again I’m sorry, but who said it ‘Shouldn’t be on a bike forum….’ ? I think the point is… that once we open this can of worms it’s bound to lead to disagreement, because everyone holds strong views …. And quite rightly, too.
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Post by McF on Feb 18, 2009 11:03:44 GMT 1
But once again I’m sorry, but who said it ‘Shouldn’t be on a bike forum….’ ? Paul Mason? Not sure that a motorcycle forum is really the place to discuss politics & religion (unless it actually relates to biking, that is) These two topics have caused so many conflicts & wars in the past ( & present!) that I think that we should keep well away from them on here!!!! Paul
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jake
'Theory' rider
Posts: 11
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Post by jake on Feb 18, 2009 11:52:16 GMT 1
' I think we should keep well away from them on here'... is Paul's suggestion. This is not the same as saying the subject shoud be banned or that the subject 'Shouldn't be on a Bike forum' (Jaz) .
We discuss semantics but my opinion is the subject is best avoided if possible, because it's a major distraction from bike related issues....and gives rise ‘to more heat than light’.
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Post by rj2para (Bisto) on Feb 18, 2009 12:54:12 GMT 1
This topic can be discussed on a motorcycle forum, surely, if topics were only allowed to be motorcycle related we would soon run out of things to talk about. To your comment about offending others, there are thousands of people of nationalities other than British, who offend British people every day in Britain, I don't understand why it only matters if we're the ones offending people. But life's too short, so quit worrying about it and go do something you've always wanted to do. As a member of the admin team I fully support this thread, and will support and post to other similar threads in the future. We set this forum up as a bike forum. But I do have views other than just my bike and fully intend to share them here. I think this thread has now run its path, and I plan to colse it now as it degenerated in to a discussion by some members as to whether it has the right to exist on a bike site. lol Which is a shame as it takes away from what has been an interesting debate. We may not be able to meet over a pint that often, but don't let that stop us talking about other things. While on the admin team I will continue to develop the site based as now, on ideas from the admin team and other forum members; but will resist efforts to restrict what we are able to say, within the restrictions of our host and our aims for the site. Basically if you want to comment with the context of a thread please do. If you have ides for the development of the site please post these. If you still don't like what we are building. I am sorry and wish you well on your journey to pastures greener. Thank you to all who contributed to what was a very interesting thread. This thread is now closed
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