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Post by ilegalalien on Oct 10, 2009 11:21:52 GMT 1
yup a syringe and a length of hose is a handy tool to have..
good for removing too much engine oil
good for getting levels correct when replacing fork oil
good for priming the carbs with petrol after a rebuild
good for applying greese to the right spot
good for making a scotoiler for the chain *cough*
and if you have the needle
good for oiling hard to reach gaps
good for blowing carb jets if you dont have a compressor
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Post by Buzzin (^_^) on Oct 11, 2009 4:18:24 GMT 1
Just a small note: if the cap for the crankshaft end if seized, like mine, don't try to force it out too hard. Mine didn't come out, but it's not big deal.... Put the bike on the centre stand and put it in first or second gear, then just rotate the wheel....you might really want to try a bit, and don't forget to remove the sparkplugs  |
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Oct 11, 2009 8:36:56 GMT 1
If you put it in a higher gear, then it will be easier to rotate the engine by turning the rear wheel.
Franklin
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Post by McF on Oct 11, 2009 9:09:50 GMT 1
Just a small note: if the cap for the crankshaft end if seized, like mine, don't try to force it out too hard. Mine didn't come out, but it's not big deal.... I had the same problem, but decided to buy a new one and then persevere in getting the old one out. It took a lot of brute force. It did not take long before the hexagonal hole was round (the metal is quite soft  ). I think I managed in the end with a hole punch and then a drift, with a 2lb hammer in the edge of the cap, when I had just got in from a ride and everything was still hot. (Heat might work against you, the metal in the cap is softer than the crankcase and therefore could expand more and trap the cap in, I just thought if it's awkward cold, I'll try it hot. A new cap is circa £15 part number 90087-MR1-000 and I'm guessing a main stealer part The smaller cap for the timing window can also be a headache (mine was ) and you need this out. That is likely to be around £10 and is part number 90084-MN8-010 (again presume this is only from your main stealer) Don't forget my old favourite "Coppaslip". Which I use on all threads that I do not loctite. It's also worth investing in new O rings too. |
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Post by ilegalalien on Oct 11, 2009 10:19:17 GMT 1
Yup those caps are a joke.. thanks Honda... penetrating fluid sprayed on em for a day or so before removing, also the use of a centerpunch... i've had a few ntv's with centerpunched caps |
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Post by cyphron on Oct 12, 2009 0:40:35 GMT 1
I would like to thak you guys again for all the info you are sharing with me. I guess I will let the valve check procedure to the next service... I've read all your info about checking the valves, but I dont feel confortable doing the thing ... sorry ... I gess I will ask the guy from the shop to check them. He is definitely more experienced than me. I already drained about 2cc of oil from the engine to set the level just below the upper level on the dip stick, just in case ... Now something I like to ask about engine temperature. Today I went to a ride with two friends (both with honda hornets) because it was a beautifull sunny day with temperatures surrounding the 30ºC. We have chosen some winding roads near the coast (sintra) and with some forest were we could feel the smell from the sea. Since the 3h trip was done mostly at low speed (except some highway), I saw the engine temperature indicator getting higher almost reaching the upper white line before the red zone. It never got into the red zone, but got close. Can you tell me when do your bike's radiator fan starts to blow as far as the temperature indicator is concerned ? I ask this because I never heard mine blowing today, but maybe that had happen because of all the wind and engine noise wen ridding ... As you know, I was looking for a spare handlebar and I think I have found one that fits perfectly on the NTV. I measured mine, and it is almos identical to this one : www.wemoto.com/parts/picture/HL-422351/Thanks |
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Post by McF on Oct 12, 2009 9:22:37 GMT 1
I would like to thak you guys again for all the info you are sharing with me. It's why we are here. You will be helping others too when you have ridden your aNTy a bit more. I guess I will let the valve check procedure to the next service... I've read all your info about checking the valves, but I dont feel confortable doing the thing ... sorry ... I gess I will ask the guy from the shop to check them. He is definitely more experienced than me. It's a wise man that knows his own limitations Why not ask him if you can watch when he does it? Now something I like to ask about engine temperature. Today I went to a ride with two friends (both with honda hornets) because it was a beautifull sunny day with temperatures surrounding the 30ºC. We have chosen some winding roads near the coast (sintra) and with some forest were we could feel the smell from the sea. Since the 3h trip was done mostly at low speed (except some highway), I saw the engine temperature indicator getting higher almost reaching the upper white line before the red zone. It never got into the red zone, but got close. Can you tell me when do your bike's radiator fan starts to blow as far as the temperature indicator is concerned ? I ask this because I never heard mine blowing today, but maybe that had happen because of all the wind and engine noise wen ridding ... 30C is not that common in the UK in October, although we can see that kind of temperature in July and August Most UK riders would probably say that the temperature needle settles where I have drawn the green line in the thumb below (click on it for a full isze image) On a hot day when the bike is stopped but engine running (say in traffic) the needle would rise to the yellow line at which point the fan would start up. Until the bike starts to move again (and lots of "fresh air" flows through the radiator), I'd expect the needle to remain somewhere near the yellow line.  The fan sounds OK, that will start up at 93-97C For reference, the thermostat will open at 80-84C and be fully open (8mm) after 5 minutes at 95C. So, the fan is working OK, but it does sound like your temperature gauge is possibly showing higher than I'd expect. Considering the recent history of your aNTy, I would recommend checking the coolant level and while you are doing it, replace the coolant anyway - it contains corrosion inhibitors etc. I'm afraid it's tank off time again! The filler cap for the system is under the air filter. The coolant level should be to the top of the filler. The procedure is explained in the manual (see my earlier link) Chapter 1 (you should not need to remove the reservoir as explained in Chapter 3). Check you remove the correct drain bolt in the water pump (illustrated). It's a lot shorter than the wrong one, which holds the pump casing together and of course, coolant will come out! Drain the coolant into a suitable container and take a look at it. Old coolant should be coloured (usually green or red) with some discoloration. make sure you flush the system with clean water and replace the drain bolt before filling up. It is very important to run the engine for a few minutes and top up the system to ensure you get all of the air out of the system. It is possible that your thermostat isn't opening properly, that would cause overheating. There are instructions for checking it in Chapter 3. illegal recently posted and his advice would be "remove and throw it away!) Bypassing the temp switch on the rad should set the fan on all the time.. if it's earthed that is.. is the fan on all the time? NTV's dont need thermostats, they're only there for cold countries, i ran a ntv for 3yrs without one. The impellor is a slot drive connection and unless that has snapped it can't really break, have you checked the thermostat opens in boiled water from the kettle, it should open 5mm or more, bung it in a cup and watch it open and close, if it dont then no worries, chuck it in the bin and run without one. run the bike from cold with the thermostat cap off (with no thermostat), you should see water circulating, if you dont then it's the impellor. Also i suggest you take the thermostat out, reconnect the temp sensor and run the bike without, if it overheats whilst ticking over then we have eliminated the thermostat.. then it must be the temp sensor or wiring to it (test by earthing the spade terminal, the fan should start)... try these ideas and see where you get As you know, I was looking for a spare handlebar and I think I have found one that fits perfectly on the NTV. I measured mine, and it is almos identical to this one : www.wemoto.com/parts/picture/HL-422351/Thanks The main thing is the diameter of the tube. If that is the same (and it is), then the length and rise of the bars is important, because of the length of the cables. On our aNTys, there isn't a lot of tolerance on the cable length. If you get it wrong (or even the routing of them) you would have a problem with clutch, choke or accelerator on right or left lock. I don't have a set to measure for you, but 150mm rise looks a little high - you might want to check this again |
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Post by cyphron on Oct 13, 2009 1:21:40 GMT 1
Hi
As you know, I removed the rear rocker cover some days ago, and while working on the side panel plastics today I noticed some oil being spilt from the cover rubber gasket. It is not much, but its there...
While removing the rocker cover and after removing the 2 top screws I had to apply some lateral pressure to take off the cover since it was almost 'glued' to the metal, maybe because it hasn't been open for some time. After removal, I've cleaned it and put it back again tightening the 2 screws firmly, but not with too much pressure because I didnt want to damage the rubber gasket. That was all I've done.
Somehow some small amount of oil keeps getting out, which didn't happen before I removed the cover, and the rubber gasket seems to be in very good condition.
What can I do to prevent the oil from coming out ?
Do you advise to use some kind of product on the joint to help sealing the oil ?
I hope not to be too boring with all these questions , but I'm a novice at these engine related stuff ...
Thanks
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Post by Jaz66 on Oct 13, 2009 2:05:42 GMT 1
Hi
As you know, I removed the rear rocker cover some days ago, and while working on the side panel plastics today I noticed some oil being spilt from the cover rubber gasket. It is not much, but its there...
While removing the rocker cover and after removing the 2 top screws I had to apply some lateral pressure to take off the cover since it was almost 'glued' to the metal, maybe because it hasn't been open for some time. After removal, I've cleaned it and put it back again tightening the 2 screws firmly, but not with too much pressure because I didnt want to damage the rubber gasket. That was all I've done.
Somehow some small amount of oil keeps getting out, which didn't happen before I removed the cover, and the rubber gasket seems to be in very good condition.
What can I do to prevent the oil from coming out ?
Do you advise to use some kind of product on the joint to help sealing the oil ?
I hope not to be too boring with all these questions , but I'm a novice at these engine related stuff ...
Thanks Mate NO question is a bad question if YOU don't know the answer. Thats what the forum is all about................ ;D Unfortunately I can't help..  But i am sure those that DO know will be along real soon to help you out. (and by asking your question now, others may not have to, when they get the same problem...  ) Take care Jaz |
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Post by McF on Oct 13, 2009 7:51:55 GMT 1
As you know, I removed the rear rocker cover some days ago, and while working on the side panel plastics today I noticed some oil being spilt from the cover rubber gasket. It is not much, but its there... After disturbing any joint, if you reuse the same gasket you risk having a leak. While removing the rocker cover and after removing the 2 top screws I had to apply some lateral pressure to take off the cover since it was almost 'glued' to the metal, maybe because it hasn't been open for some time. Exactly - it was just the gasket doing it's job, compressed between the cylinder head and rocker cover. I've had to give mine a tap with a soft faced hammer before. After removal, I've cleaned it and put it back again tightening the 2 screws firmly, but not with too much pressure because I didnt want to damage the rubber gasket. That was all I've done. The correct torque setting for the rocker cover bolts is 10Nm (which isn't much and many torque wrenches don't even go that low). So this is a matter of "feel" to get it right, and that is something often gained from experience. My definition of experience is the knowledge you gain immediately after you have just made a mistake  In this case, experience would be overtightening the bolts, which would strip the thread on either the bolt, or worse still (and more likely) the soft metal of the cylinder head. You can easily and cheaply replace the bolt but stripping the thread in the cylinder head will inevitably mean the head off, then drill the hole out and helicoil or similar Somehow some small amount of oil keeps getting out, which didn't happen before I removed the cover, and the rubber gasket seems to be in very good condition. What can I do to prevent the oil from coming out ? Do you advise to use some kind of product on the joint to help sealing the oil ? I hope not to be too boring with all these questions , but I'm a novice at these engine related stuff ... Thanks I presume you cleaned up the faces of the rocker cover, cylinder head and the gasket before reassembly. Did the rubber gasket still feel soft and spongy? If you have access to a torque wrench with a 10Nm setting, tighten the bolts correctly Skyhook recently had a similar problem, check this thread www.ntvhonda.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=help&thread=676&page=1He used a silicon gasket (presumably from a tube) to help seal his leaky rocker gasket. Make sure you buy one suitable for engines (there is lots of choice), and ideally one (like silicon) that does not go hard. As always, clean the mating surfaces and apply the liquid gasket sparingly (you do not want it squashed into the rocker area and then going around the engine Or you could buy new ones from wemoto - but this is a little expensive! Personally, I'd try a little more pressure on the bolts - with a torque wrench NB 10Nm = 1.02Kg/m (or 7.4foot/pound for die in the wood Brits) This is a unit of force equal to applying a pressure of 1Kg at a distance of 1m from the centre of the bolt If you wanted to rig up a "test rig" to feel what this is like, try this. Get a piece of wood (say broom stick, or garden cane) which is 1m plus the length of your spanner. Get a 1Kg weight balance the 1Kg weight on the end of the wood and make this 1M from a pivot point. the other side of the pivot point, you should have a piece of wood the same length as the handle of your spanner. Now move the "spanner" up and down and this should feel the same pressure as 10Nm torque In extremis, you could even get a spring balance (the kind of thing Anglers use for weighing fish), measure the length of your spanner handle and estimate the relevant "weight" that equals 1Kg at 1m (therefore if your spanner handle is 333mm long, you need a "weight" equal to 3Kg) - principle of levers (one third of the length = 3 times the weight) Put the spring balance on the end of your spanner and pull to the weight you calculated |
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Post by cyphron on Oct 13, 2009 10:25:40 GMT 1
I presume you cleaned up the faces of the rocker cover, cylinder head and the gasket before reassembly. Did the rubber gasket still feel soft and spongy? Well, maybe this was the problem... I did not clean the cylinder head, just the faces if the rocker cover before reassembly because I didn't want to mess with the rubber. Now I remember there was some oil on the cylinder head borders (it spilt when opened the cover, remember ?) The rubber seems softly enough and in good condition, and the oil only spilts on the rear left corner of the head, where the oil stays naturally deposited for long time because the bike stays on the side stand overnight. |
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Post by ilegalalien on Oct 13, 2009 10:36:29 GMT 1
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Post by cyphron on Oct 13, 2009 11:45:15 GMT 1
Sumarizing : 1 - Remove the rocker cover (with the rubber gasket attached to it); 2 - Clean both surface borders, on the cover and on the cylinder head; 3 - Apply the silicone sealant over the rubber gasket on the head removing the excess equally; 4 - Mount the Rocker cover again, tighten the bolts by 10Nm approximately (I dont have a torque wrench, but I'll apply reasonble pressure); 5 - Clean any possible silicone excess that came out with the cover tightening; Am I right ? |
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Post by McF on Oct 13, 2009 14:45:25 GMT 1
Sumarizing : 1 - Remove the rocker cover (with the rubber gasket attached to it); 2 - Clean both surface borders, on the cover and on the cylinder head; 3 - Apply the silicone sealant over the rubber gasket on the head removing the excess equally; 4 - Mount the Rocker cover again, tighten the bolts by 10Nm approximately (I dont have a torque wrench, but I'll apply reasonble pressure); 5 - Clean any possible silicone excess that came out with the cover tightening; Am I right ? Sounds good - think "reasonable pressure" carefully when you do the rocker cover bolts - don't overdo it! |
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Post by cyphron on Oct 13, 2009 18:31:25 GMT 1
By the way ...
I decided to listen carefully the engine noise from a cold start.
Started it and left it idling for a couple of minutes to let it warm a little.
I could clearly notice that as the engine was getting warmer a
tiny "tic tic tic tic" sound started to appear. Took a 10 minute ride and the ticking noise got louder. It is more noticeable when the engine is hot. When cold, this noise is not present.
I thought this must be the normal valve noise but it does not seem to come entirely from the upper part of the engine.
It this a normal behaviour or should I worry ?
I guess it must be related with the oil getting thinner when hot.
As I said before, the oil is brand new (10W40) and after 2 long trips on her there is no noticeable oil consumption and there are no power or starting issues with the bike. Always starts on first attempt with no need to use some throttle help, but as I am still learning how the bike is, I decided to ask you about this.
Thanks
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