My Black NTV

[cyphron]

Oct 7, 2009 19:53:22 GMT 1 rj2para (Bisto) said:

Hi Cyphron,

She does look good in black and I love the rear pipe.

Back to your gap, is it the same both sides?

It almost looks like the mounting point on the rear plastic is broken on the side the photo was taken from.

Any chance of some pics with the seat off?

More detailed pictures :

The mounting point of the rear plastic is not broken.
A second hole was drilled to firm the plastic, slightly to the right of the original hole as you can see on the red zone :



The small bend on the frame I talked about :



As you can see, the bend is exactly on the same point on both sides of the frame :



The gap we are talking about with no seat (on the other side of the bike the gap is exactly the same) :



It occured to me that maybe the previous owner was thinking of
fabricating his own personalized side panels in a way that
they would fit perfectly with the rear plastic with no gaps ...
But for some reason gave up the idea ...

Sheekbiker and Ilegalien, can you please explain how are those
chrome strips you are talking about ?

I don't have a clue about the radiator ends covers, sorry ...
I thought they were original on the bike, since the bolts that firm
them on the radiator are rusted ...

Another question :

Im thinking of switching the handlebar for a new one since
the actual has some rust signals. Since the original honda part is
too expensive (140 €), can you give your opinion about which
one should I chose from the following listing :

www.wemoto.com/index.dyn?flag=19&type=handlebars

I forgot to show you the odometers (at night they are iluminated in red) :



Thanks

[Jaz66]

(Posted prior to Cyphons post)

Sheek good idea re chrome car strips..
(Cyphon have you ever seen the British mini?
If you have it is the silver around the wheel arch and along the edges of the body that we mean.
Shiny plastic strip that fits over the bare metal rim of the body)
Pic for explanation purposes


But i think if you look the gaps on the NTV they are irregular,
wider at bottom then the top

Chrome strips would just make this more obvious IMHO....

Kinda think McF's idea the best so far...
Shiny tape, backed up by draught excluder then cut with a stanley knife.

Obviously the best result would be get a spare set of panel, fibreglass one side out until it matches the rear, prepare and paint same colour.

repeat for other side
It's not a lot of fibre glass but it can be a b1tch to work with
lots of smoothing to get a good finish then filler then primer then paint.

maybe not possible to get same level on each panel?
then make sure that the front one overlap the rear ones.
(Do it the other way around and the wind at speeds may rip them off )

Could be done IF you were willing to take the time?

NB: if you never used fibre before.....
make sure room is well ventilated,
wear gloves,
Use face mask
use Protective eye glasses
Cover up (Shoes, jeans, hoodie (up) ),
cos the fibres get everywhere and will itch you like crazy.

[McF]

Oct 8, 2009 0:33:18 GMT 1 cyphron said:

Im thinking of switching the handlebar for a new one since the actual has some rust signals. Since the original honda part is too expensive (140 €), can you give your opinion about which one should I chose from the following listing :

www.wemoto.com/index.dyn?flag=19&type=handlebars

The rise is the important part to get right and I cannot remember what would be standard for aNTy (perhaps 1.5" (40mm)) Hopefully someone with tube handlebars can measure theirs and advise.
You will manage with a small difference, but the cables and their routing are not very tolerant of any change (you end up having problems with clutch, choke or throttle when bars are at full lock)
One piece of advice. When you get your new bars, you will need to drill a hole in each side for a pin in the control (switches) clamp to locate. Measure each side and mark on the bars before you drill, they are different - the throttle side is further from the end of the bar than the other (I have done this TWICE!) and ended up with two holes at one end )

Oct 8, 2009 0:33:18 GMT 1 cyphron said:

I forgot to show you the odometers (at night they are iluminated in red)

40,000Km (25,000 miles) - barely run in and she does not look as if this is second time around for her - Niiiice

[McF]

Oct 8, 2009 0:59:47 GMT 1 Jaz66 said:

Obviously the best result would be get a spare set of panel, fibreglass one side out until it matches the rear, prepare and paint same colour.

Right Hand Side Panels are extremely difficult (in the UK at least) to get hold of. The seat panel is commonly available.
If you're happy working with fibre glass, get a spare seat panel (should be available on Tea Bay (check my reputation for the favourite brew - had to get that pun in (apologies Cyphron if that goes beyond your understanding of normal English) for £25 (40 Euros) or less.
Cut the Seat Panel (say at the point where the brackets to lock the seat down are. You will have this component in three individual pieces. Fasten the front locating lugs into their bolt holes, then the rear into their bolt holes (this should now give you a perfect join with the side panels and correctly fastend at the rear) and a tapered gap which you can bridge from behind with fibre glass mat. and then fill on the exterior.
It's unlikely you can do this in situ (while the pieces are fastened to the bike).
So - take some stiff material (more plastic sheet?) to act as a "former" (help keep everything in place) place it across the gap and carefully (so that you do not cut the frame or the electrics behind) drill holes through the former and seat panel, then bolt it all together, remove and work on it off the bike.
Rough the inside of the seat panel, apply your fibre glass resin, lay in the mat, pain over more resin and allow to set. Remove the "formers" and fill in the gap on the outside with car bodywork filler. Sand off and smooth the edges, paint, stand back and admire.

Make sure the formers are long enough to allow you to work inside the bolts, allow at least 150mm on each side to bond the fibre glass to the panel.

For added security, you could put a layer of fibre glass on the outside and smooth it in, you may see a little bulge, but you will then have a good "sandwich" for strength and it will look a lot better than the gap.

Oct 8, 2009 0:59:47 GMT 1 Jaz66 said:

NB: if you never used fibre before.....
make sure room is well ventilated,
wear gloves,
Use face mask
use Protective eye glasses
Cover up (Shoes, jeans, hoodie (up) ),
cos the fibres get everywhere and will itch you like crazy.

Plan you work before you begin and get everything ready before mixing the resin
Only mix up enough resin that you can use in 20 minutes or less.
Once the resin is mixed, work quickly.
Don't be afraid of making mistakes, it's "painful", but you can always cut, sand etc and start again.

oh and most importantly, have a pretty assistant available to bring you lots of cups of Tea ;D

[Jaz66]

Oct 8, 2009 7:45:11 GMT 1 McF said:

Oct 8, 2009 0:59:47 GMT 1 Jaz66 said:

Obviously the best result would be get a spare set of panel, fibreglass one side out until it matches the rear, prepare and paint same colour.

Right Hand Side Panels are extremely difficult (in the UK at least) to get hold of. The seat panel is commonly available.
If you're happy working with fibre glass, get a spare seat panel

Cut the Seat Panel (say at the point where the brackets to lock the seat down are. You will have this component in three individual pieces. Fasten the front locating lugs into their bolt holes, then the rear into their bolt holes (this should now give you a perfect join with the side panels and correctly fastend at the rear) and a tapered gap which you can bridge from behind with fibre glass mat. and then fill on the exterior.


oh and most importantly, have a pretty assistant available to bring you lots of cups of Tea ;D

Yes McF, i think that yours is the best idea here so far.

rear panel will avoid the constant danger of breaking the fibreglass off from the side panels every time they are removed AND will offer a better finish line as the rubbing down and filling to a level surface will be more obvious this way.

So Cyphron, McF makes some important points there, but most important is the last one, in fact just to make sure i will repeat his orders..

oh and most importantly, have a pretty assistant available to bring you lots of cups of Tea ;D

Sounds like a plan to me, Cyphron...... ;D ;D

[ilegalalien]

Nice clocks, think i'll make me some radiator covers next year

[ilegalalien]

Seriously i would cut those bends with a hacksaw and bend it back to original, a good welder should weld it up nice and strong by using "fishplate welds"... if you want the back end up higher you can use the adjuster on the rear shock

[pongo]

Oct 8, 2009 9:59:42 GMT 1 Jaz66 said:

Sounds like a plan to me, Cyphron...... ;D ;D

and have said pretty assistant take lots of photos while work progresses.
By the volume of photos already submitted, that does not look like a problem

[cyphron]

Thanks for the handlebars advice. I will measure the rise of
the bike's current handlebar and buy the similar one. I think
the most relevant parameters are the length and the rise of
the handlebar. The thickness of the tube seems to be standard
(22mm).

40,000Km (25,000 miles) - barely run in and she does not look as if this is second time around for her - Niiiice

I too think this is not second time for her. If it was, I think the
exhaust downpipes should not be in such good condition (they
still shine on certain parts). Being the second time for her,
(87.000 miles) I think the downpipes should be more rusted
and darkened/browned and the front forks should also be
more opaque and not so shinny due to the weather corrosion.
Also the disc brakes shoud show more signals of wear, and they
show very little wear. I think they were never replaced because
despite of having so little wear they have some rust on the inner area.

But we never know ... At least the shop guy
where I took the bike to do a full service told me that the engine
was in excelent condition, as well as the bike in general, despite
the minor modifications it has suffered. I know the bike has fallen
at least on time (as99% of the bikes do) to the right side,
because it has minor scratches on a exhaust downpipe and the
handlebar was slightly bent on that side. According to the
previous owner, he let the bike fall to the right and the handlebar
hitted a rock.

[cyphron]

Oct 8, 2009 10:30:20 GMT 1 pongo said:

Oct 8, 2009 9:59:42 GMT 1 Jaz66 said:

Sounds like a plan to me, Cyphron...... ;D ;D

and have said pretty assistant take lots of photos while work progresses.
By the volume of photos already submitted, that does not look like a problem

Ahahahaha ...

Bikes and babes... Nice combination :-)

Believe me ... I would prefer to photograph the curves of a
pretty woman than the curves of my NTV ... Sorry ...
Woman wins. Period.

Thanks again folks.

[Jaz66]

Oct 8, 2009 10:30:20 GMT 1 pongo said:

Oct 8, 2009 9:59:42 GMT 1 Jaz66 said:

Sounds like a plan to me, Cyphron...... ;D ;D

Re-edited because pongo got his priorities ALLLLL Wrong....

take lots of photos of said pretty assistant while work progresses.
By the volume of photos already submitted, that does not look like a problem

[rj2para (Bisto)]

Thanks for the extra pics always good to stimulate ideas. She is in very good order other than this. You must be pleased.

For such a small change you have to ask why did they bother. More seat foam would have been easier.

Another thought may be to build up the side panel instead, there are some on ebay currently, if you want the risk free option and one to learn on

Oh well good luck.

RJ

[cyphron]

When you replace the air filter, it's worth removing the whole filter box and the rear rocker cover to check the valve clearances. If they're OK, it's worth thinking the front ones are too (unless a previous owner couldn't be bothered to mess on with the front either!)

The air filter arrived today and I decided to follow McF advice
on removing the whole filter box and the rear rocker cover to also check the valves.

Got the bike on the side stand, removed the fuel tank and
the air filter box. But when I took off the rear rocker valve cover
some reasonable amount of oil got out sliding over the engine
onto the floor ...
I thought there should be no oil here when the engine is
turned off, so how can you explain this ?
The engine was slightly warm yet because of a short trip it had
approximately 1 hour before starting this procedure.

Could this be the cause ? Should I have waited for the engine
to cool off completely ?

Another thing I noticed was that the oil that came out was darker
than the oil I see when I take the dipstick off, since I changed
the engine oil recently, so it is brand new and still clean and gold
color.

Could this be some older oil that got there because of some kind
of tumbling the bike has had ?

Well, anyway I cleaned the oil that slided over the engine,
closed the rocker cover, changed the air filter and got the fuel
tank on place again.
Started the engine and took a half an hour ride with
no problems.

Some time after the ride I checked for possible
leaks on the rocker cover joint but all was ok. Checked the
oil level and it was on the same mark as before changing the air
filter (2mm above the upper level mark - slightly more than
it should, but I think this will not harm the engine).

Can you please give me some hints on this issue ?

Thanks

[ilegalalien]

i think it's safe to say no engine work should be carried out if the engine is not cold, except changing a oil filter as it's on a steel thread, most of the bolts go into soft alloy and can easily be damaged. Old engine oil has probably left deposits in the head and mixed with the new oil so nothing to worry about as long as it's not gritty from carbon build up.
Too much oil is not good, the clutch could start to slip, you could get oil foaming (foaming oil is usless), also you could get low oil pressure resulting in the top end not getting enough oil feed, but 2mm is not so bad, i would drain a bit out..

[McF]

Oct 10, 2009 1:42:53 GMT 1 cyphron said:

The air filter arrived today and I decided to follow McF advice on removing the whole filter box and the rear rocker cover to also check the valves.

Don't worry about the oil that spilt! Read on

Nice quick delivery!
sorry my notes weren't as quick to help you check the clearances
First, please find a copy of the Haynes Manual here
wbieniec.kis.p.lodz.pl/moto/ntv/manual/
Chapter 1 has the instructions for checking the clearances (Section 10)

Tools you will need:
Set of Allen Keys (Hexagonal Drive)
Socket Set
Phillips (Cross Head) Screwdriver
Feeler Gauges
10mm (Ring or open ended) and 4mm open ended across the flats (the manual shows them using an adjustable spanner for the 4mm but a "fixed" spanner will help a lot more. Try mail order from UK shop www.Maplin.co.uk or a local model shop

Materials
Coppaslip (Copper Grease)
Plentiful supplies of Tea, ideally served by partly dressed leggy young lady

Some useful threads from this forum

www.ntvhonda.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=test2&thread=33&page=1

and

www.ntvhonda.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=enginecooling&thread=240&page=1

Start with a cold engine, ideally after leaving overnight. Remove Side Panels, Tank off, Air Filter off (you have been there before!) The easiest way to replace the air filter is to split it and put the base on, aligning the rubbers onto the carbs. If you haven't already, a coat of coppaslip on the threads of each bolt always helps next time you take them out.
Remove the caps from the left side crankcase cover (both have hexagonal holes for the Allen keys)

to work on the front cylinder, you need to loosen the thermostat housing and remove some trims from inside the frame. I think you also have to dismount the radiator (or remove it).

I would also suggest removing one spark plug from each cylinder to avoid compression when you're rotating the engine.

To do the job properly - remove both rocker covers - don't worry about a small amount of oil, there will be a few areas where it will not drain away, say 5ml here and there.

Use a socket on the crankshaft end bolt (inside the centre hole, left side crankcase cover), with a short extension and ideally a fixed "tommy" bar (rather than a ratchet drive) and rotate the engine until you can see the markings on the flywheel as described in the manual. Check which of the rocker arms are free to move (lift them up and down, there will be some play on the cylinder that is at Top Dead Centre (TDC), then check clearances.

If the tolerance is out, release the lock nut on one tappet with the 10mm spanner, turn the adjuster with the 4mm spanner until the clearance is right, retighten and recheck the clearance, then do the second and third.
There is a little of an art to doing this quickly, so take your time. My best advice is not to loosen off the lock nut too much. Try and aim for a clearance in the middle of the tolerance range (then a small error should keep you in range still. The sensation of the feeler gauge going through the gap should be a little resistance, but still able to move through between adjuster and valve.

The manual says to start with the front cylinder, I would recommend doing the rear cylinder first as it is a whole lot easier to get at.

You had also concerns about the colour of the oil.
Again do not worry
It does not take long for engine oil to change from looking new, to appearing dirty. This is really just a sign it is doing its job and picking up engine soots etc.
The oil you saw underneath the rocker cover is exactly the same as the oil in the sump, a small amount cannot drain away when the engine is switched off, but when it is running, oil under pressure sprays around everywhere and drains itself into the sump to be filtered, then pumped back around the engine. It will look darker in the small pools under the rocker covers, because there is more of it.
On the dip stick, it is a thin film which you can see through more easily.

As for oil level, a little above the mark should be OK, but do not overfill as this can overpressurise the oil system and lead to all sorts of problems. If you want to remove oil, a large syringe with a piece of clear tuning wold work, insert this into the dipstick hole and suck some oil out.
Otherwise it is a messy and less accurate method - release the drain bolt and allow some oil to drain out.
Either way, do a little at a time until the level is right

Happy riding!

PS - it also looks as though you're hitting "return" to keep your text within the dialogue box when you're posting. You might find it easier to just type away - the forum system will ensure it all lines up OK