micawber
All Weather Rider, well hard
No longer lurking in the shrubbery.
Posts: 151
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Post by micawber on Sept 7, 2009 13:15:03 GMT 1
The electronic parking brake... About 6 months ago I bought a new shape Passat. The electronic parking brake is something of a mixed bag. If VW fitted it to save space, so that the centre console can hold more junk, then it works in that respect.
The button operates a motor on the brake units which takes time to release and engage, unlike a cable handbrake which is immediate and can be varied directly by the operator on hills or slopes. The electronic parking brake has an auto release function which detects when the engine revs are high enough to move the car or to hold it on a hill when moving off, but it takes away that nice ability with a diesel engine of being able to release the handbrake and roll forward in slow traffic on tickover in 1st. You have to rev it rather more than I would like to make sure it releases, or it can just stall unexpectedly.
You can release the brake manually by putting your foot on the foot brake and pressing the button, which is a bit of a faff. If you do not fasten your seatbelt, for example when manoevreing, which the law permits, the auto release function does not work, and the console gives a "please fasten seatbelt" message together with a sequence of annoying pings.
The handbrake button can be used to activate the parking brake as an emergency brake, according to the handbook.
Do I like the system? I thought I would get used to it, and I have, but I don't like it. It takes away another element of control from the driver, it is another component to fail or wear out, and it does not enhance the driving experience. You may say that a cable may break, but this is easily fixable. If the electronics fail, it could be a hefty bill. Since having the car I have come across instances of Passats having the release mechanism fail, needing the car to be recovered as the brake stays locked on, or more worryingly, of owners parking their cars and finding that the brake has released (apparently may happen when the discs are hot, and cool down). The handbook recommends leaving the car in gear, which is not very reassuring. My next car will definitely have manual handbrake, though, as McF says, eventually they will probably all have this system. As per the keyless ignition, though I have no issues with that.
All this on a bike forum! I don't drive the car that much, that is mostly used by SWMBO. I much prefer my bike.
Micawber.
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Post by Buzzin (^_^) on Sept 7, 2009 13:27:34 GMT 1
Actually one of the problems the manufacturers have with the old handbrake was how to implement it on rear discs....I have seen drum/disc combos as a result. This is because it's quite hard to cablecontrol a brakecaliper (or so I am told) But I would certainly not like an electronic handbrake....Knowing my experience with electronics it would suggest failure after a few years.
I am reminded of the simple new implementation of mercedes...with a foot-operated parking brake...to the right of the accelerator. Can you imagine how my uncle felt after the first ride? (silly as he was, he bought it anyway). The release for that brake was on the dashboard (I think it would have been more logical the other way around). For some reason it didn't catch on...
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Sept 7, 2009 17:57:13 GMT 1
The company Mercedes Vito I sometimes drive, still has the parking brake pedal on the left side of the clutch (LHD-model). The release is also a handle in the dashboard, just above the pedal. What I don't like about this system is the amount of noise it makes when releasing it.
Franklin
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Post by McF on Sept 13, 2009 7:34:40 GMT 1
Met a friend for dinner last night. She drives a Renault Scenic; this is her second one as the previous one (only 2 years old) had a fire in the dashboard. Parked it one night and locked it up. Next morning she was off to work, pressed the remote door unlocker, nothing happened. Tried several times and still unable to lock the doors, then noticed then dashboard was melted. After several hours of calls to breakdown recovery and the main stealer, a very large HGV recovery truck arrived in her small cul-de-sac and dragged the car all the way down her drive and onto the road.
The fire had caused a complete failure of the electrical system, preventing not only entry into the car, but also - they could not release the hand brake.
The car was written off, but other than "electrical fault" no-one was able to explain what started the fire.
This is progress!
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micawber
All Weather Rider, well hard
No longer lurking in the shrubbery.
Posts: 151
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Post by micawber on Sept 14, 2009 23:33:19 GMT 1
Electronics in vehicles... I'm no Luddite (well, maybe I am!) but modern technology has brought many benefits, but also brought new and different problems while solving the problems that older style vehicles used to have. Citroen even in the 1960's brought out hyropneumatic and self levelling suspension, swivelling headlights, electronic braking (minimal pedal travel) etc (Citroen DS I believe) some of which have disappeared only to resurface in more reliable, computer chip controlled form years later.
What I object to is the removal of rider and driver control over basic rider/ driver functions. ABS for example is pretty well standard in most new cars but that means that there will be a generation of drivers in the future that assume that you can brake on bad surfaces or mid corner willy nilly without regard to real life conditions, which is fine til you exceed the design limits of the system, probably with catastrophic results to yourself or other road users. On a bike even with ABS you will be painfully aware that all surfaces have their limitations of grip, and ride accordingly.
Disc brakes, tubeless tyres, electronic ignition, alarms/ immobilisers, Alloy wheels all have improved road users' lives (though with discs on bikes I suspect it is more to do with cheapness of manufacture as a drum on the back in my experience would need less maintenance and the shoes seem to last indefinitely, unlike disc pads).
Recently my Passat showed an engine management fault and would not exceed 20mph as it went into "get you home" mode. Yet next time it was started it ran normally and I could not reproduce the fault. Electronics are not intelligent, and can't tell the difference between a bad connection and an engine fault. It is getting looked at this week. I recently went to a VW dealer who informed me that there was a software update for the electromagretic parking brake - only £113. Software update? For a handbrake? What planet is this again??
Re Buzzin's comment about manufacturers having problems getting a manual handbrake to work on a hydraulic disc system: How long have cars had disc brakes now? And many cars have had discs all round for well over a decade now. I had a Citroen BX in 1995 which had the handbrake working on the front discs.
The Passat (and I imagine many cars with electronic handbrake systems) has the parking brake working on all wheels, which makes it an effective emergency brake but like the Scenic mentioned by McF, makes it a real pain in the @rse to recover when it will not release. You can't just lift one end of the car to move it.
None of my bikes recently have been less than 10 years old, some much older, all reasonably maintainable or fixable by me. In some ways I am still pretty mechanically inept (though still learning new things). Are modern bikes as inaccessible to owner input as modern cars? I hope not.
Micawber.
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Post by McF on Sept 15, 2009 7:16:58 GMT 1
£113 for a software update - on your handbrake Was it 01 Apr when they advised you of this - ridiculous If it's not right, then they should do it as a recall Main Stealers everywhere are Bobbin Rastards and I'm afraid it's the manufacturers that are helping them by designing in shite like this that means your pal in the side street garage has to invest in huge amounts of technical kit to work on your car and he's now expected to be a computer programmer rather than a grease monkey I joined an excellent VW Forum a while ago at www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/index.php if you need to research anything like "Passat electronic handbrake" which yields an impressive harvest. Going even further "Off Piste". I saw a reference to the UK driving test. Apparently you cannot take your test in a car with Electronic Handbrake. The DSA site (www.dsa.gov.uk) isn't available at present, but I found this www.driving.org/DSAputsThe.htmlTalk about not getting your act in order. Good job these people aren't running the country Anyone figured out who might be in charge?
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Post by Jaz66 on Sept 15, 2009 10:35:38 GMT 1
Oh i didn't know Microsoft were part owners of VW?
Suppose if you break down you got to close all the windows before you can try restarting her.. ;D ;D ;D
Well it used to be Reagan, Bush and Obama, but since the Lockerbie bomber release i think it must be that bloke from B.P.............or Esso or Shell ..etc etc etc
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Post by McF on Sept 15, 2009 11:47:02 GMT 1
Does make me think about the Bill Gates v GM contest
Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.
4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five per cent of the roads.
6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light.
7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.
8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna
9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.
As far as I know, many people already have to do No 10 now with the "keyless" ignition
No 8 is pretty much how the Auto release on the Electronic Handbrake Works
This is the future and it doesn't look too rosy!
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Post by Jaz66 on Sept 15, 2009 12:16:55 GMT 1
EDITED
Does make me think about the Bill Gates v GM contest
Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
suit a lot of lady drivers, save a lot of explaining ;D ;D
2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
Not a problem for our thieving scum bag MP's then
3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.
also known as 'Old car syndrome' can hear blokey shoving his mate aside, sliding into the driving seat and smugly explaining to mate ...'yeah I used to have one of these, you just need the knack to get it started'
4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a Right turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
should be compulsory for cab drivers and those with less then 5 years experience AND a UK licence, not the mickey mouse international License, whose only test seems to the ability to Utter sound, any sound no matter how unintelligible.....AAgghhh
5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five per cent of the roads.
probably the mythical engine made by GM/Ford that was cheap to run and used electric motors and water , but who would want a car like that
6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light.
see point 1, 4. ;D
7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.
8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna
9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.
As far as I know, many people already have to do No 10 now with the "keyless" ignition
No 8 is pretty much how the Auto release on the Electronic Handbrake Works
This is the future and it doesn't look too rosy!
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Post by Buzzin (^_^) on Sept 15, 2009 12:23:50 GMT 1
They forgot something: - A Linux car would be free, without charge, would run on most roads and would look stunning. - It also wouldn't have a locking mechanism that any 5 year old could open with a piece of string, but one that was actually secure. - But because it's not made by microsoft, hardly anyone would get one. - The linux car would also not try to remove the drive from the driver as a MS car would try to. small update now Vista is out: - An MS car would tell you "you can't do that" every time you want to go over 30 mph, and continue to ask you if you are sure when you manage to get it over that speed anyway. - You would only be able to bring MS certified passengers with you in the car, otherwise you'de be restricted to 20 mph. - Because of previous behaviour from MS most service stations would refuse to service your car if it wasn't blue. You are free to choose, but only blue will get you service....some more progressive stations might help you if your car is orange, but heaven forbid it should be red.... (did I loose you here? IE -> FF -> Opera )
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Post by Jaz66 on Sept 15, 2009 12:33:49 GMT 1
Ooh Clever ;D..(I got it ) But you just know the motorways would be littered by Geekie drivers popping open their Linus hoods and swapping engine parts around...on the hard shoulder (Flash barstewards.. .... ;D ;D )
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Jan 10, 2010 10:11:03 GMT 1
Telephone conversation:Good morning, this is the Skoda garage. How can I help you ?Erm, yes, good morning, my name is de Graaf van Salland. I purchased a Skoda Octavia from your company a few months ago. And I would like to know if I can still claim warranty on that vehicle. What seems to be the matter with the car, Sir ?Well, nearly every morning for the last 2 or 3 weeks, I wake up to find some sort of white emulsion on the car. A white emulsion ? sir Yes, some sort of white, fluffy emulsion...... And I wouldn’t really mind, but the stuff is extremely cold. Also it takes ages to remove it from the windows, so I can actually see through them and drive the car in a responsible manner. What’s more, it seems to be some sort of a contagious car-disease. Contagious ? sirYes, because it seems to effect all of the cars in my street. GvS PS. I really like snow........ But after about 3 weeks of the stuff, I wish it would disappear.
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Post by McF on Jan 10, 2010 11:15:34 GMT 1
It's certainly contagious, my cars are suffering with it too. I give treatment every day and remove the contamination, but within hours it's back One day a day or two later Things seems to be a lot milder today, no fresh snow and some signs of it melting
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Post by Buzzin (^_^) on Apr 1, 2010 16:15:45 GMT 1
The previous Astra F 1.6 was a Red Sedan...one previous owner (which I knew) ... old man, never even reached the speedlimit on the motorway.... Can you imagine how scared the little 1.6 must have been once I got it? Well....because the engine is bullit proof, but not Buzzin-proof it died after getting waaaay to hot because of a broken cooling system. Not so technical term for this is: I blew up my engine So, what do you do when you realise the engine isn't Buzzin-proof? Right....you get another one (just to make sure) Here it is: My new Astra G 3 door 1.6 (same engine type): The new car does have all the farkles I could want. (well, except perhaps airco and a towbar) Electric windows and mirrors, ABS, heating that works , 'fog' lights, hight-adjustable seat, adjustable stearingwheel, fancy bluetooth radio (came with the car....to complicated for me....and I like this type of gadgets...) Now all I have to do is find out if I can keep this one working for a bit longer as the previous one (3,5 years).
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Apr 2, 2010 8:48:56 GMT 1
Well Buzzin, Good luck with your new car. Take care to look at the temperature meter once in a while and stop before the meter goes into the red area But on the other hand, don't look too often because there are probably more dangers outside that car than inside ! I'm sorry to say that I'm not a fan of Opel vehicles. I find the the steering rather nervous. It's probably got to do with the electric driven pump for the power steering: when driving in a straight line, the pump is switched off. If you turn the steering wheel a bit, then the pump is switched on again. But that first bit you have to turn the steering wheel is without power steering. So if you have an old-fashioned mechanically driven power steering pump, then consider yourself lucky. When Saab was still a part of GM, they had to introduce this system as well. In my opinion this was a bad move. Hopefully Saab will now have a better future, now they've lost GM. I'm no fan of Mr. Victor Muller, but I hope he will make Saab find their place in the market again. Especially now Volvo has gone into Chinese hands, I'm rather optimistic about Saab. GvS
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