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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Mar 30, 2009 12:57:38 GMT 1
As you might have read in my "fuel pump"posts, I've got problems with the electric power supply to my fuel pump.
Thinking that the fuel pump relay might be broken, I removed it in order to have a specialist check it over.
The fuel pump is temporarely supplied with power from a different source (temporary wire).
But now I wonder: I have a feeling that my engine is now running on just 1 cylinder. There is, at least, a serious lack of power.
Question: could it be that the removal of the fuel pump relay has caused the front cyliner ignition coil to stop functioning ?
If I look into the electrical diagram, I can see that these two are connected.
Thanks for any answers.
Franklin
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Apr 5, 2009 11:36:17 GMT 1
The lack of power comes from the lack of ignition on the front cylinder. There is no spark in either sparkplug.
Thank to Mr. Haynes, I did some checking, but I can't think of the problem.
- All the fuses are OK
- I used a spare sparkplug to check the spark on the front cylinder: the spare plug does not give a spark when attached to either of the 2 front HT leads. It does give a spark when attached to one of the rear HT leads (that means that my spare sparkplug is OK).
- The resistance of the front ignition HT coil is as follows: 2,6 - 2,7 ohms on the primary side. Haynes states that 2,6 is OK, but that's at 20°. The temperature was about 15° when I measured.
- The resistance on the secondary side is 31,2 K ohms, with both HT leads attached. That's OK.
- The measured resistance in both pulse generator coils is 438 - 439 ohms. Haynes states 450 - 550 ohms for this, but also at 20°.
I'm beginning to think that I will have to visit a dealer to come to the source of this problem.
Any suggestions are welcome.
Franklin
PS. I also put the fuel pump relay back (which isn't a relay at all, but a high capacity transistor), but that has no effect.
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Post by McF on Apr 5, 2009 12:41:23 GMT 1
My reputation as far as Electrickery is well established I think, but in case not - I'm only step removed from "Cave man" when it comes to this mysterious and magical source of energy.
As far as fault elimnation goes, you can also rule out the coils more effectively (and HT leads) by swapping them over. I think you're looking at the same things I would. Boiled down to basics, lack of spark can only be:
No low voltage (in to coil)
Coil cracked / damaged (and therefore not producing High voltage)
HT leads / suppressor caps faulty (degraded / bad contacts
Spark plug faulty
Spark plug not earthed
Ignition signal (in this case from the pulse generator) absent
I don't have access to a wiring diagram at present.
I'm currently wondering if the fault might be the coil - try swapping them over (not an easy job for either, but good luck with the rear one!)
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Apr 6, 2009 18:52:43 GMT 1
Does anybody know how to detach an HT lead from an ignition coil ?
Do I just have to turn them anti-clockwise ?
Thnx
Franklin
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Post by Jaz66 on Apr 6, 2009 21:05:50 GMT 1
Don't really know franklin, but would guess its a straight anticlockwise twist and unscrew of maybe even a push fit so twist back and forth to remove.. (Caution am only going by the car distributors and leads, when i had a car ....  ) |
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Post by McF on Apr 7, 2009 0:31:25 GMT 1
I'm pretty sure they're just screwed on to a threaded spike within the body of the coil.
Just twist anti-clockwise and they should come away
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norfolknchance
Sheene Gold rider. Nuff said
15967 mile & climbing
Posts: 783
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Post by norfolknchance on Apr 9, 2009 20:27:02 GMT 1
if you removed the fuel pump relay
& the front ignitors are powerd from the relay then they wont work
if you run the blue/yellow wire from the direct from the ignition control unit to the front ignitor it should work
or just try linking the rear ignitors to the front ones with spark leads off the bike for testing
as the timing will be differant
hope this helps
to me it sounds like the relay is knackerd
from the cdi unit find the block connector & check the voltage on the blue/yellow wire
if voltage is zero the looks like the CDI unit is out
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Apr 10, 2009 20:47:43 GMT 1
I borrowed a multimeter from work today and did some measuring. I had already measured the resistance through the various coils (see post above). But a collegue of mine also suggested to measure the resistance of all the coils against the earth. When doing this, I could not find any difference between the front & rear ignition coils. Also no difference between the two puls generator coils. Then I swapped the 2 ignition coils over. I actually removed the front one and attached it the the low voltage wires of the rear one. I left the rear ignition coil in position, but I used a specially made cable to attach the rear coil to the low voltage wires of the front coil. Then I tried to restart the engine and (hey presto !) the front sparkplugs produced a spark. So the front ignition coil & HT leads are OK. I put everything back in it's normal position and then measured the voltage on the blue/yellow wires of both ignition coils. On the rear (=working) coil the voltage is: - Only ignition turned on: 1,4 - 1,5 volts - Trying to start the engine: 9 - 9,5 volts On the front (=non-functioning) coil the voltage is: - Only ignition turned on: 10,5 - 11 volts - Trying to start the engine: 10,5 - 11 volts (this is no typing error, the voltage is the same). This leads me to believe that the spark unit is defective.  Any other suggestions  Thanks Franklin |
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Apr 13, 2009 21:00:03 GMT 1
Yesterday I ordered a second-hand spark unit (CDI-unit) from "Otterparts". It should arrive some time next week.
I hope this does the trick.........
Franklin
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Post by McF on Apr 14, 2009 8:07:26 GMT 1
Let's hope it soon arrives and is the cure to your problems
It's been a tricky challenge!
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Apr 15, 2009 20:43:16 GMT 1
The part arrived by post today. So this evening I had to try & fix it.
Before I plugged in the new unit, I checked the voltage with a running engine (that is, running on 1 cylinder with the old CDI-unit). I measured 13,5 - 14 volt with a running engine, which I think is a healthy value.
The reason I did this was because a collegue of mine suggested that the voltage regulator might be broken.
If the voltage was too high, then the CDI-unit could be the first to blow.
A new unit would then probably last a few seconds and then follow the previous unit (to the bin...) & waste € 75,=.
Fortunately the voltage was OK and when I replaced the CDI-unit with the 'new' (second-hand) unit the sparks were back in the front cylinder.
Also the petrol pump now gets its voltage through the normal way again (the relay is functioning again).
It got a bit too dark later on, so I'll have to put back the rest of the parts tomorrow.
BUT I CAN RIDE AGAIN THIS WEEKEND !!!!
Thanks for all your suggestions.
Franklin
PS. I'll update my site later on with more information about this problem.
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Post by McF on Apr 15, 2009 21:56:21 GMT 1
Hurrah
it looks as though the end to your current problems is in sight.
It's been a tricky one this time, so let's hope you have found the solution.
Lucky you to be having the chance for a ride this weekend, I hope the roads are dry and quiet for you.
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Post by rj2para (Bisto) on Apr 16, 2009 12:37:48 GMT 1
Fantastic news.
Great posts, you could have the makings of a few tips and tricks/fact files mixed in there.
Need to make sure we hang on to this thread till we can dig through for the gold.
R.
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on May 3, 2009 15:29:22 GMT 1
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