Fuel pump wanted

[De Graaf van Salland]

I had a feeling for some time that my fuel pump wasn't working properly.

Today I checked:
When I try to start the bike, I can feel/hear one 'tick' in the fuel pump, but no petrol comes out of the side feeding the carburettors. Because of the 'tick', I think that the electricity-side is OK. (but I haven't properly checked the relais).

Fuel feed to the pump is OK: there is plenty of petrol coming out of the tube from the tank (the filter isn't blocked).

Any suggestions for repair or replacement of this pump ?

I had an offer from "David Silver spares" and it's about 200 quid for a new pump including the cost for sending it to the other side of the north sea.
I certainly don't want to spend all that money on an unreliable pump.

Thanks in advance.

Franklin

[rj2para (Bisto)]

I replaced mine with one off a CBR from ebay, I think the pumps are same on a number of the bikes.

[De Graaf van Salland]

Hey ! I'm rather pleased with myself.
I managed to repair my fuel pump.

Have a look at this page: www.stoeretassen.nl/My_NTV650/Benzinepomp/Fuel_pump.htm

Now I hope that the repair lasts for some time (but I doubt it).
At least I can ride my bike, while I look around for a new pump.

Franklin


Later added remark: Forget this repair. It will only last some weeks.

[McF]

Hey Franklin - pat on the back, well done ;D
Not only have you managed to repair your pump, but an excellent and professional "how to" like that will put "Haynes" and "Clymer" out of business before long - they will have to sharpen up their act.

From the photos - does it appear you also had a little clean and polish?

I'm sure your repair will last a long time.

[wellsplattered]

Just wondering how you would know if a fuel pump has failed? I hear no click on my bike when i start it up. It starts first time and pulls nicely upto about 100mph, then feels a bit gutless from then on.

[De Graaf van Salland]

Hi, McF,

Thanks for the compliment. I only cleaned the area around the contact points.


Hi Wellspattered,

I knew something was wrong because the motor wouldn't run at all........
I had the left side panel removed and I held one hand on the pump, while I tried to start the bike with my other hand. This way I heard/felt the 'tick'.

And I never go as fast as 100 mph (= ±160 km/h) on my bike, so I wouldn't know about the gutless feeling.
This thing I repaired with the switching mechanism is (I think) a "GO" or "NO GO" situation.


Ride safely

Franklin

[wellsplattered]

Thanks for the info Franklin. The thought was placed into my head by the guy working on my bike. Said he couldnt hear any tic from the bike when the key was turned. He usually works on much bigger engines so possibly the tic is not quite so pronounced.

Guide looks great, glad you sorted it

[McF]

Mar 1, 2009 17:26:03 GMT 1 wellsplattered said:

Just wondering how you would know if a fuel pump has failed? I hear no click on my bike when i start it up. It starts first time and pulls nicely up to about 100mph, then feels a bit gutless from then on.

Your bike won't run without the fuel pump - I think you'll know soon enough when it stops working!

Older bikes just used gravity feed. The bottom of the tank was always a lot higher than the float chamber, open the fuel valve and unless a pipe was blocked - guaranteed fuel flow.

Modern bikes have carbs a lot higher and the bottom of the tank is a lot lower. To get sufficient flow flow at anything other than full tank on an NTV, you need the fuel pump. Fuel will flow (at little more than a trickle) as far as the pump, but then has to go "uphill" to get to the float chambers.

On my Pan, the tank is actually lower than the carbs, so it's all uphill.

At less than £10, it's worth a new filter from time to time. A blocked, or partially blocked filter will make a noticeable difference.

You're not doing too badly when you're blasting around the course on a track day ;D if you are complaining "gutless at more than 100mph".

A while ago, I calculated the speeds per 1,000rpm in each gear, based on gearbox ratios, final drive ratio and rear wheel size.

In top gear, you will ride at a true 14.6 mph (23.35km/h) for every 1,000rpm.

Max power (650) is 55bhp/41Kw reached at 8,000rpm
Max Torque is 40.5lb/ft/55Nm reached at 6,000rpm

Therefore at:
Max power, your speed will be 116.7mph (186.77Km/h)
Max Torque, your speed will be 87.6mph (140.08Km/h)

Accoring to Haynes, estimated top speed is 115mph (185Km/h), which is commensurate with max Power.

Torque is the force that feels like "grunt" and power is the force that feels like "whoah, that's fast".
To pull up a hill, against a strong head wind, with a passenger that eats lot of pies, you need a lot of torque. To cruise comfortably, again torque is the baby.
Wheelies away from the lights, fast moving acceleration etc, power is the thing.
Gearing plays an important role too as a low gear ratio puts a lot more torque into the back wheel (to stop wheel spin, change up).

A pathetic attempt at science, but my logic is if you still have guts in your engine at 100mph (on the race track ), be happy ;D

PS
A lot of very modern bikes have fuel injection and they rely on fuel under pressure from the pump.

[McF]

PS
if anyone is interested (and sad enough to want one) in a copy of the spreadsheet I did with gear ratios etc, drop a message and I'll PM it back.

[skyhook]

Mar 1, 2009 17:26:03 GMT 1 wellsplattered said:

Just wondering how you would know if a fuel pump has failed? I hear no click on my bike when i start it up. It starts first time and pulls nicely up-to about 100mph, then feels a bit gutless from then on.

The other day mine pulled nicely up-to 110 mph before me bottle went after being hit by a side wind gust.

Today on the way back from box hill with 2 up, she pulled me and the other half up-to 100mph with no problem.
Then the other half bottled out..........lol

[wellsplattered]

ahh, many thanks for replies, made me feel a lot happier I do not have to spend more money on the bike!!!

110mph seems to be the max for me, the bike is running lean, possibly from the K+N filter the previous owner fitted. :/ gave you some Karma Mcf, thats an awesome post

[rj2para (Bisto)]

Spot on post Mcf, my bike pulls like a train too ;D, it would be great to get her on a track to be able to push us both harder.

Have to say I prefer bends to out and out speed and with a stuffed rear shock, all riding has the potental to be lots of fun.

She made a sports bike try harder today though! he was rude when I moved out of his way, and had to be shown the error of his ways.

Long live the Revere, when she is full sorted I could push him harder. I did enjoy taking the "P" on my good old girl with her nice new hump.

[McF]

Mar 1, 2009 22:11:59 GMT 1 wellsplattered said:

gave you some Karma Mcf, thats an awesome post

Many thanks, noticed your "0" looked out of place, so have some back!

Skyhook - 100 2 up on the race track near Box Hill - excellent.

[Buzzin (^_^)]

I have told it before, and I am sure other can verify: 183 km/h (real ones that is...GPS) is the top speed of a '93 Revere
(The dails indicated 190). That's downhill, wind in the back, flat on the tank and no luggage. (ow, and an empty, straight road ahead)
Mind you it took it's sweet time getting there
So anything over a 100 mph is pushing her a bit hard.....so don't expect to much grunt at that range anymore
I usually cruise around ~87 mph (140 km/h) and she has enough grunt there to overtake in a hurry if needed

[De Graaf van Salland]

Is that 140 km/h on the dial ? Or on the GPS ?

Because I think that the difference between the speed on the dial and the speed on the GPS (which I think is more accurate) is rather a lot.

Franklin