NTV Indicators

[cyphron]

I need to replace the small bulb of the rear left winker, and it is not easy to find a suitable bulb for it ...
As you saw on some pictures I've posted before, I have those small winkers, that need small long 21w bulbs.
I found a place that had these, but they were expensive, so I thought of replacing the four winkers with another ones that use most common (and cheap) bulbs ...

I guess they still have to be 21w bulbs because of the actual relay, but I would like a most common type of 21W winker bulb...

Do you have good suggestions for non OEM winkers ?

Thanks.

[McF]

Nov 15, 2009 17:43:39 GMT 1 cyphron said:

I guess they still have to be 21w bulbs because of the actual relay, but I would like a most common type of 21W winker bulb...

Do you have good suggestions for non OEM winkers ?

Thanks.

I had to read the subject title twice for this thread (apologies for non english if that filthy thought is lost in translation)

21W is standard for an indicator bulb, but it's odd if they're the mini units.
Other than finding the right bulb to fit in the holder, you need to consdier the electrical "balance" in the system if you have a normal indicator relay (the little black box which makes the system flash).

The normal relays use a bimetallic strip that heats up and bends then cools down and straightens, each time it does this (very quickly), it makes and breaks the circuit making the lights switch on and off. When the electrical "balance" of the system is changed, the current passing through the bimetallic strip changes causing the heating/cooling process to take longer or less time.
This is what causes the flashing rate to change if a bulb blows. Same applies if you replace the 21W bulbs with eg 5W LEDs.

A solid state indicator relay does not work in the same way and can cope with different "balance". They're not expensive (around £15) and easily changed.

I bought some from eBay for a reasonable price. I just googled "Mini Indicator" and got this
www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductList.asp?cls=MCYCLE&grp=MCC04&pgrp=MCP019&tlgrp=MCR03
with a good range starting at £12
www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MCYCLE&pcode=BIKINDARRBK

Fitting at the rear should not be a problem, as they are bolted in to the frame, so a straight swap.
The front are more difficult as the standard are on a rubber mount that wraps around the fork stanchion. You may have to make a bracket etc to mount them from.

Do make sure the ones you buy meet EU and local regulations.
You may also have to consider advising your insurance company of a modification.
I mentioned this at renewal having changed brake lines (to braided stainless steel), small headlight fairing and mini indicators as they asked "Has the bike been modified in any way?"

I then had to explain that these were essential modifications. The headlight had been cracked, the brake lines were showing signs of wear and the indicators were loose with poor electrical contacts.
I then advised that exact aftermarket spares were difficult to obtain for these bikes, manufacturer spares were hideously expensive and I thought the items bought helped me to stay safe and legal without costing a fortune.

Always be careful about changes, improvements and modifications you make and ensure you advise your insurance company.

Do not find out like a friend of mine did. She put alloy wheels (standard manufacturer ones she got from a scrap yard) on a VW Golf). Car got stolen and written off. Insurers checked everything out and said "Car has been modified and we were not advised - we are not paying".
If you check the factory label (in the service handbook, and usually in the spare wheel well) it says what options the car left the factory with.
Engine Code - not just the serial number, but also size/power
Gearbox
Electric Windows
Allow Wheels
Trim (Leather etc)
etc etc

[rj2para (Bisto)]

I have replaced one of my original indicators (winkers) with an old CBR indicator.

Almost identical.

[cyphron]

Nov 15, 2009 23:07:35 GMT 1 McF said:

I had to read the subject title twice for this thread (apologies for non english if that filthy thought is lost in translation)

21W is standard for an indicator bulb, but it's odd if they're the mini units.
Other than finding the right bulb to fit in the holder, you need to consdier the electrical "balance" in the system if you have a normal indicator relay (the little black box which makes the system flash).

The normal relays use a bimetallic strip that heats up and bends then cools down and straightens, each time it does this (very quickly), it makes and breaks the circuit making the lights switch on and off. When the electrical "balance" of the system is changed, the current passing through the bimetallic strip changes causing the heating/cooling process to take longer or less time.
This is what causes the flashing rate to change if a bulb blows. Same applies if you replace the 21W bulbs with eg 5W LEDs.

A solid state indicator relay does not work in the same way and can cope with different "balance". They're not expensive (around £15) and easily changed.

I bought some from eBay for a reasonable price. I just googled "Mini Indicator" and got this
www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductList.asp?cls=MCYCLE&grp=MCC04&pgrp=MCP019&tlgrp=MCR03
with a good range starting at £12
www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MCYCLE&pcode=BIKINDARRBK

Fitting at the rear should not be a problem, as they are bolted in to the frame, so a straight swap.
The front are more difficult as the standard are on a rubber mount that wraps around the fork stanchion. You may have to make a bracket etc to mount them from.

Do make sure the ones you buy meet EU and local regulations.
You may also have to consider advising your insurance company of a modification.
I mentioned this at renewal having changed brake lines (to braided stainless steel), small headlight fairing and mini indicators as they asked "Has the bike been modified in any way?"

I then had to explain that these were essential modifications. The headlight had been cracked, the brake lines were showing signs of wear and the indicators were loose with poor electrical contacts.
I then advised that exact aftermarket spares were difficult to obtain for these bikes, manufacturer spares were hideously expensive and I thought the items bought helped me to stay safe and legal without costing a fortune.

Always be careful about changes, improvements and modifications you make and ensure you advise your insurance company.

Do not find out like a friend of mine did. She put alloy wheels (standard manufacturer ones she got from a scrap yard) on a VW Golf). Car got stolen and written off. Insurers checked everything out and said "Car has been modified and we were not advised - we are not paying".
If you check the factory label (in the service handbook, and usually in the spare wheel well) it says what options the car left the factory with.
Engine Code - not just the serial number, but also size/power
Gearbox
Electric Windows
Allow Wheels
Trim (Leather etc)
etc etc

Thanks for your words Mcf, but here in Portugal these mods are completely ignored by insurance companies.
They are all legal. The only restriction that we should take into account as far as indicators are concerned is the light colour.
It must be orange and visible by other drivers.
Insurance companies here do not have total risk policies when the insured vehicle is a motorcycle. What I mean is, if you have an accident with another vehicle and you are the guilty driver, they only pay the other driver's expense. You are by your own.
So basically, the insurance companies here do not care if your bike is modified or not, since they will not pay for it anyway.
They will just cover your hospital expenses (if needed) and the other driver's prejudice. They do not pay for your bike.

The actual indicators are similar to these on the front



and these on the back



My only concern is that the 21W bulbs they use (below)



are not easy to find (at least near where I live) and the only ones I saw for selling were expensive, so I thought if there could be better alternatives, even if I have to replace the indicators.

But I guess I will live with these ones for some more time...

[McF]

Now that is an interesting bulb

The sidelamp bulb in my might Pan is that shape and proportions, with a clear bulb.
When I bought the bike, the bulb was a 20W Halogen and was very bright. It blew a few months ago and I could only get a 5W (non halogen) in any of the local shops.

Do check the rating of your bulbs and if possible, get a serial number from the bulb too.

I will try and check back to find a website I found 20W bulbs of this size and shape

Do you have orange lenses on your indicators, or clear ones?

If you have orange lenses, I presume you will be looking for clear bulbs?

McF

[cyphron]

Nov 16, 2009 0:47:17 GMT 1 McF said:

Do you have orange lenses on your indicators, or clear ones?

If you have orange lenses, I presume you will be looking for clear bulbs?

McF

Yes McF, clear bulbs because I already have orange lenses.
Thanks.

[Buzzin (^_^)]

Keep in mind that bulbs with orange lenses and clear ones have a different foot/base. Look at the image above, and you will notice the base locator pins are not aligned, on a clear one they would be aligned. I happen to know as I couldn't use a clear bulb in my (broken) indicator after crashing my Strom. Finding an orange one proofed a bit difficult.
There should not be a technical reason for not working, it's just the base that is different...

The orange bulbs I have on the strom are 21W and more round...although I think they have the same base as the bulb you showed here.... My bulbs can be bought at any car/motor shop. Just sometimes not at petrol stations....
Having said all this, as you might know I have indicators in my mirrors....nice, but non-standard bulbs. Couldn't find them anywhere....but then, I was used to looking in carshops/sites and petrol stations.... turns out they are 'standard' honda bulbs...
Now all I have to do is locate a dealer for them (local one had never seen them )

Don't worry too much about getting the 21W exactly right. I have 21W on the rear, and 16W (mirrors) and I believe 10W (next to headlamp) on the front. The only thing that happens is that the speed of blinking changes slightly.....as long as that is within acceptable limits, you should be fine...

[cyphron]

Finally I could find a suitable bulb for the small indicators but I found that these are halogen lamps and are way too expensive.
10€ for a single bulb !! And they are not easy to find ! I had to go to 4 shops and just one of them had these, and only had 2 of them.
Taking this into account, I started consider other indicator alternatives.
I then remembered that I had some spare parts of a trashed Yamaha R6 of a friend of mine and decided to check if there were any indicators on the box where I had those stuff ...
Finding the box was not an easy task, but after discovering it I was happy to see that there were 2 front indicators on it !

So I started to look at them and started to imagine how could I adapt them to fit on the NTV, since these use NORMAL 21W Bulbs like these, but with clear lenses


So I took a piece of metal and fabricated my own part to support these on the NTV.


Fitted them on the lower bolt of the headlamp support, did the electrical stuff, and here is the final result :









What do you think ? These are similar with the original NTV indicators (the small ones I had on the front were almost falling apart anyway).
A bulb for these indicators costs me 1,5 € in oposition to the first one I posted, wich costed me 10 € .
Seemed a good improvement to me...

[skyhook]

Nice job there Cyphron, better than the originals indicators.

[rj2para (Bisto)]

Great job I agree with Sky.

Very tidy; dare I say an improvement to the look.

No possibility of droopy indicators on your bike.

[Jaz66]

Have to agree, Cyphron

They do look better then the original................. ;D

Nice work..now if you can sort out a fix for the the dreaded
'Headlamp frame' i would be very happy..................

[Buzzin (^_^)]

Very nice looking
And much cheaper bulbs too, and you can get them anywhere