wolfy
Bad ass biker
Posts: 286
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Post by wolfy on Jan 28, 2012 0:28:14 GMT 1
Since deciding to ride through this winter, the weather has been pretty mild, although with a few degrees minus here and there (including -4C on my first IAM observed ride!), but the bike had run fine until last Monday evening, I've just been doing normal maintenance and have given it a good slathering of ACF50 and it's layering up nicely. On Monday, I went out to Wendover, parked up about 7.30pm and it was about +3C. When I came to depart at 9.15pm, it has suddenly dropped to -4C and falling, and the bike wouldn't start, no spark at all, so I called out the recovery service (who were piss poor btw, sent a no-bike-experience driver in a truck that couldn't recover a bike. Which is not amusing when it's the recovery service that was offered with my insurance from my bike-only insurance company. another story) and they couldn't work it out (see above) so eventually truck no.2 took me and the bike home. I had been outside at -4C down to -6C for nearly four hours by then (see above, stern letter being written etc.) and when I woke in the morning I was so ill I had a temp and the lot, been in bed with flu all week. This morning I felt sufficiently improved to have a poke around at the bike. I'd read GvS's excellent words and pictures on the ignition system and was prepared to take a methodical trip through and diagnose wiring, junctions, CDI, relay or coil problems. But first thumb it started (I'd had the battery on trickle charge these few days) fine so I figured it was the sudden drop in temperature must have formed some ice in the loom somewhere. It's started at those temps fine of a morning, but it lives under a cover at home and I've usually been out in the evening and put a cover over a warm bike, so no ice methinks. Probably not just water, it gets left in the pouring rain for up to 11 hours at the railway station some days and starts on the first thumb every time. Sometimes with a nice backfire from the Fuel silencer  So, I am going to spend tomorrow morning going through the whole loom checking connections are sound, not moist, and well sealed. How should I seal/waterproof them once I'm happy they're in good order? |
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Post by McF on Jan 28, 2012 1:00:15 GMT 1
Hi Wolfy, sorry to hear your tale of woe, that sounds a frustrating experience.
It's not going to harm to have a go at overhauling your wiring loom but it's not likely to be the magic wand that you're looking for.
This to me sounds like extremely cold temperatures and a weakening battery
Ice in contacts etc isn't going to cause any more problems than water unless the expansion of the ice forces two contacts apart and then you're always going to have problems with those contacts until you stop them being loose.
At this time of year we run vehicles for shorter durations and use the lights more (unless you keep them on all year around) which means the battery gets progressively less charge all of the time.
Add in cold temperatures which increase internal resistance in the battery and makes it less effective; if the battery condition is running down it could easily mean there is insufficient juice to turn the engine over.
How old is your battery? I think a typical life expectancy from a manufacturer is 5 years; I'd normally expect to get a bit more than this, but I winterise mine properly.
If it is more than 5 years old, you may want to consider a replacement, but try my next thought first (if you can)
Keep the battery charge as high as you can but topping it up overnight or otherwise when you're not using it. Ideally to do this, you want a lead permanently attached to the battery and a suitable connector on your charger (ideally an intelligent one that can manage your battery).
When you get home (or even arrive at work) plug the charger in and switch on.
Doing this will keep the battery at it's optimum charge level and help give a little more life when it's cold.
Always make sure your lights and any other electrical systems are switched off when you start up, the starter drains a huge amount of current, so help it get all it needs by removing all other source of demand.
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Post by smartiedarkblue on Jan 28, 2012 9:13:39 GMT 1
good points there from mcf. I would suspect battery as well. However if your wiring loom is suspect i happpen to have a brand new one lying in its box in my shed. If you need it.
ed
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Post by gothitjulie on Jan 28, 2012 10:12:57 GMT 1
Sounds like your battery is on its last legs, but there are a couple of other points that can go wrong on an NTV.
Starter solenoid, for which there is a fix, can go wrong.
Red lead from solenoid to ignition goes via the headlamp, it chafes as it goes into the headlamp housing, worth checking (symptom is no electrics at all when you turn the ignition on).
The earth, always worth giving the earth a twiddle.
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wolfy
Bad ass biker
Posts: 286
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Post by wolfy on Jan 28, 2012 10:45:30 GMT 1
Super stuff, thanks for all the advice - I'm going to give it all a good looking over this morning, and see what connectors I can find to make a charging lead then I can trickle charge the battery in-place when I'm parked at home.
I don't know the age of the battery, that's for sure, and I have flattened it a couple of times, so whilst my Oximiser says it's up there, you're correct it doesn't know for how long! I get paid Tuesday so I think a new batt would be a wise move. Any recommendations? I had a look at Wemoto and £54 for the Yuasa sealed one sounds like a happy mid-price but I've no reviews to research.
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Post by thatsawkward on Jan 28, 2012 10:58:57 GMT 1
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wolfy
Bad ass biker
Posts: 286
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Post by wolfy on Jan 28, 2012 11:02:43 GMT 1
Funnily enough, I was just rummaging under the stairs and found the box for the Optimiser and it's got the connector, so all I need to do is find some suitable wire in the garage to extend the lead then I can run it out the front window, that'll keep me busy later on!
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wolfy
Bad ass biker
Posts: 286
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Post by wolfy on Jan 28, 2012 13:20:52 GMT 1
Just given it a good 30 mile blast out toward Oxford and back, I'm now going to run through all the block connectors and clean them up and leave a bit of ACF50 around them, and rig up a trickle charge cable for charging every time it's parked.
A new battery will be sourced in the week, come payday, and we'll see how it goes!
Heated grips will also be purchased methinks.....
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gills
Bad ass biker
Posts: 262
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Post by gills on Jan 28, 2012 22:00:13 GMT 1
I'm interested to read this - mine didn't start a couple of weeks ago. My bike lives outside and we had had 3 nights of -5/-6 C when I'd not used the bike. I went to it on the Monday morning and it woudn't bite. It was turning over fine and I got a few healthy backfires out of it (so I must have been getting fuel and at least an occasional spark), but it wouldn't fire, so had to take the campervan to work.
I charged the battery that evening and it started fine the next day and it's been fine since.
I sometimes wonder if only 3 out of 4 plugs are working when it first starts, but it seems to settle after a blip of the throttle. I'm going to change the plugs in due course, but I also wonder if I suffer from water getting into the HT leads/caps or the CDI units themselves.
Hope your problems don't recur and I'll let you know if I find anything conclusive.
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wolfy
Bad ass biker
Posts: 286
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Post by wolfy on Jan 29, 2012 12:10:03 GMT 1
good stuff, thanks gills. I think it's a matter of regular charging, acf-ing, general TLC and using the bike every day also. It'll be spring before we know it |
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Jan 29, 2012 13:32:40 GMT 1
I'd read GvS's excellent words and pictures on the ignition system and ...... Thank you for those kind words. That's why I made the website. But first thumb it started (I'd had the battery on trickle charge these few days) fine Lucky you I agree with others on this forum that it was probably a battery-temperature problem. My battery is now ±6 yrs old, so I was expecting problems when I tried to start my bike last week (during winter, mine hibernates in a cold garage), but to my surprize it did start ;D Heated grips will also be purchased methinks..... Then you've probably already seen this: www.stoeretassen.nl/My_NTV650/Handgreep_verwarming/Grip_heater.htmGvS |
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wolfy
Bad ass biker
Posts: 286
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Post by wolfy on Jan 29, 2012 14:17:46 GMT 1
I certainly have Franklin, now's a good time to extend my thanks to you for your whole bunch of NTV pages, I used them a lot when I first bought the bike last Summer and serviced it and got it through the MOT with flying colours! The trickle charger is working fine now, and I am biting the bullet and getting a new battery next week. I should have some bonus coming through so hopefully will be able to afford the Monorack bits I need to get the topbox back on (see earlier post on exploding Renntec rack a few months ago!), oil and filter (time for a service there) some more ACF-50, some Oxford Hot Grips and with any luck a nicer new Textile jacket & trousers that are warmer and more waterproof than the £50 each Frank Thomas ones I currently use I'm really enjoying the NTV - it's my first 'proper' bike and I love it to pieces. I just clocked over the 69,000 miles mark on the odometer the other weekend |
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gills
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Posts: 262
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Post by gills on Jan 29, 2012 15:40:29 GMT 1
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wolfy
Bad ass biker
Posts: 286
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Post by wolfy on Jan 30, 2012 12:49:05 GMT 1
Ah, they look just as good, I'll take a look, at £30 it's better than £46 for the Oxford ones, although I may go Oxford just because I've read many many many good reports esp to have confidence they will fit.
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wolfy
Bad ass biker
Posts: 286
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Post by wolfy on Jan 30, 2012 12:51:54 GMT 1
I was looking at this and decided I would follow your lead and use a relay to fit. I was wondering whether to fit the relay in parallel with the tail light or in series, but wasn't sure if in parallel would reduce the amount of light. I also thought that would mean if the tail light bulb went, the heated grips wouldn't work. But then (and slowly!) I realised this was a Good Thing as if my tail light goes, I want to know about it, and a complete lack of power to the heated grips would certainly draw my attention to it 75% of the year. So, in series it is! Cor, I am slow sometimes |
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