adding lights???????????/

[smartiedarkblue]

Hi all,

Quick question has anyone ever added projector lights to the ntv. I am looking to add two projector lights on the engine crash bar to work with the high/low beam. to assist with lighting the roads.

Will the ntv charging system cope with 2x55w H3 halogen lights run through a relay connected to the main power feed from the lights switch on the right handlebar.

I am looking also to fit another HID unit to it, but with a better reflector unit.

This is all due to the fact that i am sick of idiot car drivers pulling out in front of me at night and then using the excuse i didn;t see you.........

I was very nearly cleaned up last night and the lady while she didn't hit me, she was forced to pull over and after i had slowed my heartbeat to less than 250bpm was given a piece of my mind, with none of gods lovely english language spared.

Anyway Can this be done with no adverse affect to the bike. all answers will be greatly appreciated.

cheers
ed

[ED-CASE]

Usual health-warning - my methods worry me, let alone others - use caution if you try this way
I intend to fit something like, but costing virtually nil, using oddments, as usual.
I aim to:
1 Croc.-clip leads from a lamp of comparable amperage to the battery terminals
2 Fuel low so fuel-pump assistance in operation
3 Engine warmed and running, initial draw of electric starter replenished by then, I hope
4 Main-beam, brake-lights, and indicators, on, (for max. normal electrical load)
5 Multi-meter leads clipped to battery terminals, (set on 20v dc?)
6 Hope to see at least 13.8v dc at tickover
7 Hope to see voltage rise a little by winding throttle slowly past, say, 2000 rpm, and back
8 If so, I think the generator might stand the added load
9 Me being paranoid, next I would temporarily stuff the extra lamp in the tank-bag, and...
10 Tape the multi-meter to the 'bars, with extended leads to the battery terminals
11 Ride a few miles, glancing at the multi-meter occasionally, when safe...
12 If net volts gained slightly, or at least maintained, fit the extra lights and hope it works...

(bet there are easier ways, but I'm only a happy bodgineer)
HTH, and good luck
All the best
Ed

[rj2para (Bisto)]

This has been done by others on the forum and I will leave it to others to tell their tales.

Did find this in my New Years tidy up that could be another option.

From the 2009 wellsplattered France trip

ntvhonda.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=logwayround&thread=392&page=1

[McF]

Dec 31, 2010 14:06:37 GMT 1 smartiedarkblue said:

This is all due to the fact that i am sick of idiot car drivers pulling out in front of me at night and then using the excuse i didn;t see you..........

I'm afraid to admit a high degree of cynicism here. At the beginning of October, despite a massive, bright double bulb headlight on my mighty Pan, plus 2 high intensity LED lights, a car still thought he could pull in front of me on the A1. He executed a U-turn at night and with no street lighting. As if that wasn't enough, I was overtaking a HGV and had a 4x4 plus other cars immediately behind me.
It's not as though there weren't plenty of lights to see!
Sometimes "SMIDSY" actually means "I didn't look"

Having said that, during daytime, we do need a lot of help and additional lights do help. I recently did a "Bikesafe" course and they talk about the "Looming effect" created by a triangle of lights (headlight plus 2 additional ones"). As you draw closer to a junction, the size and spacing of the triangle of lights changes, growing larger. This gives the observer a sense of perspective and helps them judge the speed of your approach. The other thing you can do is to weave left and right. Movement attracts the eye a lot better than anything else. We're not good at assessing movement coming straight towards us, but an object that moves from side to side will stand out from the background. This clip explains it better than I could:


Anyway, my own health warning is "I am not an electrician and still think this miracle of modern science is actually "white man's magic". I know enough to kill myself and no more!!

I look upon your query as a simple balancing act; what is the current available and what is the demand upon it?

Current available is easy, your aNTy's standard alternator should produce 345W at 5,000rpm

What is the demand?
I don't know how to provide the engine's demands but assuming everything on (figures used for early NTV600 which appears "worst case"):

63W Main Beam (60W bulb + 3W on instrument panel)
4W Side Light
10W Tail Light (2 x 5W)
42W Brake Light (2 x 21W)
45W One side Indicator (2 x 21W + 3W on instrument Panel)
7W Instrument Lights (3.4W + 1.7W x 2)

A total of 171W (50% of the Alternator output), this assumes that switching on High Beam cancels out Dipped Beam (which it generally does I think)

But on top of this, is the fuel pump, supply to the coils, the horn, and other warning lights that may come on in normal use (neutral, oil pressure). Even the Rev Counter will consume some electricity, there will be losses in the regulator and the wiring and of course you need some "juice" to charge the battery.

Adding a further 110W leaves only 64W (equivalent to high beam!)

My conclusion is that 2 x 55W is probably too much, so consider additional lights with less demand (like high intensity LED). I did post some time ago with an article on improving brightness and illumination from front light. If I can find that, I'll add a link

Our resident "Bodgineer" EX925 gives a sound thought on practical assessment, although I disagree with point 6

Dec 31, 2010 21:12:52 GMT 1 ED-CASE said:

6 Hope to see at least 13.8v dc at tickover

I think you would see a lot less than that at tickover, remember, the alternator is rated at 345W at 5,000 rpm - that's about 73 mph in 5th gear) and with load on the system from the lights etc, 13.8V seems far too high.

I have a voltmeter fitted to my mighty Pan. At tickover there is less than 13V (barely "balance" in the system) with lights on. Increase the revs say 500-1000 and it then goes up to around 14V

I am more curious about the effectiveness of an Ammeter. Cinidik discussed this in an early post ntvhonda.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=test&thread=406&page=1
Interested to hear other people's views.

Roger.

Jan 1, 2011 0:54:22 GMT 1 rj2para (Bisto) said:

While I do apply some reflective tape to the sides of my bike, logic tells me the only purpose is for when the bike is parked, or if you are waiting to pull onto a major road from a minor. A car pulling into the side of you isn't going to see any reflective tape, because
a - he's looking at the front of the bike, not the side
b - his lights aren't shining on the tape
c - your headlights would be brighter than the tape
d - by the time he sees the side of your bike, it's too late!

[vtwinfan]

Hi, I fitted a set from halfords to the bottom of the rad covers, worked well and looked cool. but the ntv charging system wasn't enough to run them all. long rides at speed all was good, but town and restricted roads started to run the battery down so much that at a set of lights the fan cut in and the engine stopped, battery completely flat. put them on a separate switch so you can turn them off might be better.

[smartiedarkblue]

hi all thank you very much for the advice, it is truly invaluable. Not too sure about the 13.8v at tickover though mine makes no where near that, She only makes 13.05v @1400rpm. with nothing on, rising to around 14.1v @ 5500rpm.

was interested in your comment vtwin as it was a set from halfords that got me thinking. I am wondering along the lines of HID for the add on lights as the power drain is a hell of alot less. However most of my journey to my new work is through sheffield which is very stop start. and i am wondering if the bike could stand any further drain at all??

Might run with a voltmeter attached for a couple of days and see what it averages with and without drain. If it stays consistantly over 13v then i will see.

watch this space for for tales of woe and misery...............lol

happy new year all
ed

[micawber]

Here's my contribution for what it's worth.

I've had a pair of Halfords "Micro Cruise lights" on my NTV for nearly two years now (rated at 55 Watts each).

My experience has been that the alternator has enough capacity at motorway speeds, which makes it useful for riding in company, for example, as they show up well in mirrors and help to let others know you're still with them, and to stand out as "something different" to other traffic. Otherwise I use a 23 Watt halogen pilot bulb in daylight. I think you'll be exploring the limits of the alternator's capacity with 2 X 55 Watt lights on as well as the main beam at night. At normal "A" road speeds or below, I don't think the alternator will keep up.

The NTV doesn't respond well to bump starting (don't ask me how I know!). I use the extra lights only when I need them, for example for short periods when negotiating badly lit lanes or streets where there are parked cars on both sides. They are very useful linked to the headlamp flasher for getting attention. I have an aftermarket indicator switch which gives me on, off, and linked to main beam (so I can use them with the headlight flasher in daylight).

I agree with McF about the triangle of light and the "looming" effect as this was what I hoped to achieve when I fitted them.

However, added to McF's (and ex925)'s current drain figures must be the fact that an ageing electrical system develops extra resistance of its own between all the connectors in the circuit which is an unknown quantity. Mine is 17 years old and although a 12 volt system "should" suffer less from this than previous 6 volt systems it is still there.

I originally hoped that I could merrily ride around with my Micro Cruise lights on all day and night but sadly this is not the case as the alternator just has not got the output at low revs.

However, all is not lost. Google "BikeVis Bullets". These people produce high intensity LED lights as well as (claimed) MOT friendly HID systems.

I've recently ordered from M&P a set of "Spear LED Marker Lamps" which at a sale price of £2.99 a pair must be worth a try. I've not fitted them yet so can't give an evaluation of them.

As McF's painful example shows, you can go around covered in reflective tape and be lit up like a christmas tree, but if the other person doesn't look, or doesn't perceive what they see if they do look, then you have to ride super defensively. Don't assume that extra lights will do the job if the other person doesn't look.

Some years ago Mrs M was on the way to pick up the kids from school (in daylight) in a pretty sizeable people carrier which we had at the time
when a woman emerged from a side turning on her left, and steadfastly looking to her left ploughed straight into the people carrier. Quite a mess it was, and I couldn't help wondering if I had been passing on my bike, would my spidey senses have caused me to swerve, brake, sound the horn, or would I just have ended up under her Astra?

Life is full of imponderables.

Happy New Year!

Micawber.

[McF]

Ooooh Micawber, these look great

www.bikevis.com/motorcycle-led-running-lights.html

and I'm afraid they have put the price up (Government VAT increase?) as they're now £14.95 + P&P

There are 3 videos to demonstrate the effectiveness, but it's always difficult to show relative brightness etc; they do show up rather well and have an almost insignificant drain on your electrical system.

I had a quick look at the site and was delighted to note a wider range of products available all at realistic prices. I particularly liked the Cree Lights www.bikevis.com/motorcycle-cree-led-running-lights.html at 60 beer tokens, they're a bigger investment than the bullets, but look a lot more effective (especially as I'm looking to mount them on the mighty Pan)

There is also a HID/Xenon conversion www.bikevis.com/motorcycle-hid-xenon-conversions.html

I still haven't found my earlier article, but this is the piece that was in the BMW owners mag



and Finally, on a sadder note - don't forget the law and your insurance company.
during my searches, I found a reference saying that HID conversions were only legal if you had self levelling suspension and headlight washer ntvhonda.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=deauville&thread=1586&page=1

This set me googling and I found this interesting "Police" forum www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk/index.php?/topic/32360-illegal-retrofitted-hid-conversion-kits/
Largely targetted at car modifications and misuse (one (I have many) of my pet hates are car drivers that insist on leaving their fog (especially rear) lights on all the time - dark and raining conditions = nightmare!). I think most people expect bikers to add illumination to aid visibility, but make sure you stay on the right side of the law.

Even more importantly, make sure you advise your insurance company of any changes, modifications or alterations you make to your bike. I would urge you to speak with them before you even buy the bits. I fitted mini indicators and a small headlight fairing to my old aNTy. I renewed my insurance and was asked the usual questions, when we got to "any modifications", I said "yes" and mentioned these mods. This set alarm bells ringing and it took several days of "refer to my supervisor" and a whole host of "why did you do this?" questions before they confirmed that I would be covered.
A neighbour had aftermarket alloy wheels fitted on his Astra which was subsequently stolen, crashed and written off. The insurers initially refused to pay out anything on the grounds:
a. Adding the wheels made the car more attractive to thieves
b. Adding the wheels (exactly the same size and same tyres as original) may have changed the performance characteristics and therefore contributed to the loss of control by the underage, drugged up, joyriding twocking Chavs.

After a lot of argument, the insurers eventually offered a partial settlement which my neighbour accepted on the grounds that "something was better than nothing".

So make a quick phone call to your insurers, confirm that they do record all calls, have the chat with them and if they agree with the proposed changes, make a note of the date, time and names of people you spoke with and put this in your policy documents.
If they don't agree, then don't make the changes until you find an insurer that will agree.

[ED-CASE]

I just have to say, EXCELLENT ADVICE Mr. McF

I have first- and third- hand experience to back up those assertions about underwriters
I believe the modern call-centre system compounds the problem, in that:
a At first contact level, the call-centre operative will generally have a limited "script"
b First contact will be probably feel reluctant to transfer, (perhaps less earning-points?)
c Succeed in moving up one level, the perceived time-imperative will be tighter
d "Supervisor" will likely be seeking additional charge &/or disclaimer opportunities
e Anyone seeking clarity, or to have agreed changes recorded, may face antagonism

A friend told me his (underwriter) employer's disclaim department had the largest budget...
I resolved to deal with underwriters as I would if seeking a loan from the Mafia................
"Just remember... They make the rules, especially the ones you don't know about"
All the best
Ed

[McF]

I didn't find the article, so I've uploaded it again


and here is the website link
www.hids4u.co.uk/motorcycle-hid-conversion-kits/

our aNTys use a H4 bulb

70 beer tokens www.hids4u.co.uk/h4-motorcycle-35w-pro-plus-hid-xenon-conversion-kit.html

don't forget, your insurers could consider this a modification so it's best to speak before you buy.
I also seem to recall reading somewhere that the Ballasting system causes a small delay in lamp reaching full brightness so beware when converting dipped beam

[smartiedarkblue]

hi all,

many thanks for all comments they have been invaluable, i have now run the bike for a couple of days with a voltmeter attached and the poor old girl is stuggling to make 13.5 volts @ 70mph and through sheffield she makes around 12.6 - 13.6v.

So the long and short of it is that unless i like trying to bump start a v-twin (by the way it can be done, try 2nd-3rd gear) Which i don;t then the whole idea of adding 2x 55w lights is a very bad one. So there goes another genius plan up on the shelf for now until it gets the kinks sorted out.

Anyway as and when i get my new crossrunner i shall make sure she has extra lights to make up for my failure this time.

cheers
ed

[ED-CASE]

might be worth a look at

www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/GoffyDaytimeLights.htm

'cos he supplies neat, very bright little LED running-lights

I figure if they work for old brit-bikes with limited generator output..................
Also might have very little extra load in conjunction with an LED "side-light".....
Or even instead of the headlamp mounted parking/sidelight?
Forgive me if anyone's mentioned him before
All the best
Ed