600/650 rear bevel drive

[micawber]

I'm hoping one of you long term NTV-ers can answer this query.

Is the rear bevel drive unit interchangeable between the NTV600 and NTV650?

I may need to find a used one, and if the 600 and 650 ones are interchangeable it gives me more choice on ebay or wherever.

My bike is a'93 NTV650P.

Thanks.

Micawber

[deedee]

I wouldn't claim to be a long term NTV-er...
My Haynes book of stuff points to the final drive ratio being the same.
Only the Deauville's noted as different. Ratio. (Unit definitely different.)
I've a NTV Revere hybrid & a Revere, externally they both look identical.
(Don't know origin of the Hybrid swing arm though, ie NTV or Revere?)
But I'd assume that the ratios will be the same too... (Or very close.)
But; I'd await confirmation from someone with more experience...

If they are;
I've got a spare final drive unit in the shed, so I'll watch this thread.
Picked it up and don't know it's origin, but believe it to be a Revere.
Dee

Been out & checked spare final drive;
'Feels' OK, but in need of sprucing up!

[geoffnorfolk]

There must be a difference as they've got different part numbers and the 600 is a bout £200 more expensive.

[micawber]

This is the thing with Hondas. Even the same model year might need different parts if there has been a modification during that year by Honda -that's why Honda Dealers want the frame number for ordering parts.

But for practical purposes -if the rear bevel drive unit has the same bolt fitting dimensions and disc mounting points then it should fit. I think that the wheels are interchangeable between models, and the rear disc is the same. Gearing is the same between models,and even if there are internal differences resulting in different part numbers, it should fit both 650 and 600s.

But then there are points such as -does the drive shaft end have a different number of splines where it fits into the unit, is the end the same length for all models, etc. And other issues that I wouldn't even have thought of until I tried to fit it.

This is where it would be good to hear from someone who has fitted a 650 unit to a 600 or vice versa.

I don't know how long these things usually last -would expect them to well outlast the engine. There are a few on ebay at the moment, some even described as "NTV 600/650 drive units" but I want to be sure before I take the plunge and end up with one that doesn't fit.

Micawber

[deedee]

Brought the final drive unit in from the shed: -

No part number is apparent. (Just the cast specifications for the oil.)
I'm going to say; I believe final drive unit must be off of a Revere 600.

So, for what it's worth;
Number of splines:- I found 21 (Seemed odd, lol. So counted three times.)

Not sure what is meant by 'is the end the same length for all models, ect.'
So checked in Haynes;
'the end', or Drive shaft Joint? [7] (As bolted to the Final Drive Gear. [13])
I'm hoping you mean: -
Taking the machined face of the Final Drive Unit as the plane of reference.
The Drive Shaft Joint protrudes 36mm beyond that plane. (Into swingarm.)

The more I look at it, the more I believe compatibility between Revere & NTV.

Hope it helps,
Dee

I'm out and about, but will look in later if you specify measurement points.

[micawber]

Bike is still in use at the moment, so is not in bits to be able to measure parts.

I suppose the clincher would be if the drive shaft is the same part number across all models, then the final drive unit must fit. Does anyone know, or have access to Honda parts diagrams so they could check?

The more I look into it, the more I think that they are interchangeable but with years of owning different Hondas where so many parts weren't, I would still like some confirmation.

Micawber.

[rj2para (Bisto)]

This site may be worth a look.

www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/1/Make/Honda/YearID/31/Year/1990/ModelID/7158/Model/NT650


I can't do much else, as I am not that mechanical.

Good luck.

Rj

[micawber]

Alas,R.J., that's a U.S. site, and doesn't cover the NTV600/650.
However, I've come across this site which gives microfiche pictures and parts numbers for a wide range of bikes.

www.bike-parts-honda.com/moto-identification---UNITED%20KINGDOM-----380.html

It shows that all models use the same drive shaft, and the same pinion into which the driveshaft end fits on the rear drive unit.

The drive units are listed new at a horrendous price as complete units except for the NTV600M, as well as having internal parts etc available.

The NTV600J and K models have different part numbers for the rear drive units, and the NTV650P to V models all have the same part number (which is different from the previous models).

Since the different part numbers may be due to internal differences it is probably safe to assume that they are all interchangeable unless there are changes in discs or calipers for different models (will have to have another look tomorrow to check).

Micawber.

[deedee]

Well impressed with that site Micawber.
Well useful, thank you for posting that.
Can see me needing that at some point. ;D

[rj2para (Bisto)]

Thanks Micawber Have some Karma.

[micawber]

Had another look at that site this morning.
Established that all the rear discs are the same, then had a look at the brake calipers ...aargh!

2 different types for NTV600J, 2 different types for NTV600K, depending on engine number, NTV600M no longer listed as a complete unit, Nissin ones on NTV650P onwards, got to NTV650V which seems to be different again before reaching for the paracetamol.

So are the outer casings with the caliper mounting holes the same part number for all models? Will have to trawl through it again to find out. May be it's just the caliper mounting brackets that vary, so that all brakes fit the same holes on the final drive casing.

Having owned a fairly rare Suzuki (VX800) I soon learned to spot the same switchgear, brake discs and calipers etc on other Suzukis as they seemed to use many of the same parts on other models. However, even then, when talking to Suzuki parts suppliers there was no way of confirming that parts would fit as the parts numbers were different for each model even when the parts were the same.

There was no database for interchangeability of parts, and the same applies to Hondas. If you look at a CB500 of the same era as our NTVs for example you may recognise the switchgear, headlamp and maybe brakes which look similar but will have a different part number so no confirmation of any interchangeability.

If someone has come across a website which does do this it could become very useful as we become more dependent on used parts for our bikes, bearing in mind that the newest NTV will now be around 16 years old.

Micawber

[micawber]

Seems like I've answered my own question!

The part number for the inner casing cover (which has the mounting lugs for the caliper on it) is the same for all models. Since they all use the same driveshaft, and the wheels are interchangeable, then by a process of deduction the final drive unit from any 600/650 should be useable on any other 600/650.

Micawber.

[rj2para (Bisto)]

Micawber's Fiche site find, is now added to our site.

www.hondantv.co.uk/ntechinfontv.php