micawber
All Weather Rider, well hard
No longer lurking in the shrubbery.
Posts: 151
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Post by micawber on Jan 26, 2009 0:46:52 GMT 1
You can fit a centre stand without dismantling the exhaust system by removing the mounting bolt near the side stand (underneath and to the left hand side of the bike) then removing the bolt which attaches the silencer to the footrest mounting plate on the right. Slacken (but do not remove) the nuts that clamp the downpipes to the cylinder heads. You should then be able to carefully swing the exhaust outwards and upwards. I found that it was helpful to use odd bits of wood to wedge the silencer away from the footrest mounting plate. The clamps that hold the stand pivot tube are quite springy. The right hand clamp can be sprung open quite a way by wedging a large screwdriver into the slot. A small amount of levering allows the pivot tube (pre greased) to be pushed through from the right side at enough of an angle to scrape past the silencer and then straightened to fit through the stand and the left hand clamp. You can then fit the clamp bolts and split pin and take the strain off the exhaust by removing the wedges and bolting it back in place. Don't forget to tighten the downpipe to cylinder head nuts. My silencer was the original stubby Honda one which must have been 15 years old at that time. Nothing broke, but there is no guarantee that your particular one won't give way if you try this. The hardest part for me was fitting the stand spring. The stand should come with a rubber stop which fits on to the collector box.
Micawber.
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Post by McF on Jan 26, 2009 0:54:51 GMT 1
Good luck with that proposal, post back and let us know if it works for you.
Ref the rubber bump stop for the silencer. I found a round rubber door stop from a DIY store (£4 for two) and a stainless steel nut and bolt worked very well. It didn't seem to get hot enough to melt, the bolt head sits deep inside the rubber, it does the job and looks OK.
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Jan 26, 2009 21:50:39 GMT 1
Thanks for all the replies. I don't think that I'll try micawber's method; I really don't want to touch the exhaust. I've been working on an idea. It will involve some metal work, but that's no problem: My boss hase a complete workshop, that I'm free to use when I'm off-work.
I'll keep you lot informed.
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Jan 31, 2009 22:20:08 GMT 1
The idea was a bit more work than anticipated........ So today I've started work on the removal of the muffler. I could undo all the nuts & bolt wihout any problems. But I can't get the muffler away from the two exhaust pipes. I've sprayed plenty of WD- 40. Any other idea's ?? Franklin
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Post by rj2para (Bisto) on Jan 31, 2009 23:01:22 GMT 1
A bit of heat would be my thought.
But this is based on gut feel rather than experience.
Help please?
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Post by McF on Feb 1, 2009 10:22:12 GMT 1
Is your silencer (muffler) standard? If so, there is a metallic fibre gasket ring around the exhaust header pipe to seal the joint, see this link for a pic. shop.wemoto.com/pictures.dyn?u=5835282qqq5828311Mine are dark grey unlike the photo. These gaskets can get squashed and fairly messy; that would make it difficult to remove silencer from header pipes. I'm assuming you haven't undone the header pipes at the cylinder head. It will make your job a little bigger, but go for this: (You will find this much easier with two pairs of hands) Undo the clamps at the cylinder head - If they haven't been undone for a while, give these a good spray with WD40 first, use a good 6 sided socket to undo (best with a universal joint for the rear clamp). Once they are both free, try the front first. You should have enough play to get the header pipe out of the head, then rotate away from the bike and then back towards until you have enough clearance to withdraw the pipe from the silencer. You may be able to get the remaining pipe with silencer away from the bike and repeat to free it. If not, you may need to rotate the silencer on the pipe. All of this is going to result in the disintegration of the gasket rings, so order a fresh pair (£4.60 each), and at £1.22 each, get new sealing rings for the cylinder head (please note they are different sizes - Front and rear). I would also bin the original clamps for the header pipe / silencer join and get some stainless steel circular clamps, they're more effective and don't rust! On reassembly, copper slip on threads will help next time you're taking the system apart. If you have an aftermarket pattern silencer some pictures might help with suggestions if the above doesn't work. I've only referred to "Silencer" above, but for clarity, the two header pipes go into a collector box which is made out of the the mildest rot attracting material known to mankind. Take a lot of care with this, especially the joint section where the header pipes enter. Mine were rotted but my local chap is an ace with a welding torch and gas welded me two new ones on.
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Feb 6, 2009 21:59:51 GMT 1
Thanks McF,
I tried your suggestion and it worked perfectly. I could undo the two down pipes from the cylinders without any problems. Then I managed to wriggle the whole assembly (2 pipes & muffler) away from the bike. Then, by twisting the down pipes separately, I managed to get them free from the muffler.
After that, fitting the centre stand was "a piece of cake". I will attach photo's soon.
I've ordered the new parts from a local car-parts-store. They should arrive in few days.
Two more questions arise now: 1. Any ideas on how to remove the heat shield from the muffler. I managed to undo 1 of the 3 screws with a sort of grip wrench. I can't get a grip with a (phillips ?) screwdriver. And also one of the remaining screws is "sunken". 2. What is the best action to be taken in order to prevent the muffler & collector box from rusting away. As I have the whole thing in my shed, on top of the work surface; now is the best time to do something about this.
Suggestions are appreciated.
By the way, our weather was sort of "spring-like" today...... I rolled the bike out of the garage and worked outside. Not a flake of snow to be seen.
Ride safely (especially in the snow),
Franklin
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Post by McF on Feb 6, 2009 22:56:05 GMT 1
Great news on your progress - well done (I'll help myself to a few house points and two sweeties from the jar ;D)
Those horrible little phillips screws - one down - two nightmares to go! Have you got an impact driver, or access to one?, That or stud extractors are your options. I ended up using a dremel (hobby tool) to cut a straight slot in the caps, then beat the bejassus out of the impact driver with a 2lb (1Kg) hammer. Eventually they started to slowly move and every turn was a major effort. I tapped the holes back out and replaced the shield with stainless steel cap head Allen Bolts with some "Coppaslip" to help undo.
You might end up having to use stud extractors. The "sunken" one will be a nightmare as you will probably have to drill through a mashed up bolt head to get into the shaft of the bolt. Concentrate on the other and if you need to cut the head off and drill into it you can consider doing it straight away on the sunken one while the phillips head is decent enough to give a guide to the centre.
When you're using an impact driver, set it up to drive in the right (anticlockwise) direction. Get a good seat in the bolt head and then deliver good positive blows, there is no need to belt it as hard as you can. The driver is made to produce axial (into the bolt) and rotational (turning) forces so it seats the bit into the bolt head and tries to force it around - they are very effective. You can probably manage this by bracing the silencer with your leg, but a second pair of (very muscley) hands will be very useful. Consider wearing earplugs - it makes a noise and right in the wrong part of the audio "spectrum".
To help get a few more winters out of your collector chamber, wire brush and clean it up well then spray with a good exhaust paint. I heated my chamber up quite warm with a blow torch first to ensure it was dry and help the paint key on. As I wasn't going to run the bike for a while, once the paint had dried and hardened, it got a bit of a blow torch too.
Your muffler will probably rot away from the inside and I don't think there is anything much you can do, but you can always consider: There is probably a little drain hole to allow moisture / condensation to run out - make sure it is clear of muck / debris. Try not to run the bike for short periods. If you start it up, get it up to operating temperature for a while, best bet is only start it to ride for a decent distance. keep the outside clean, polish any rust spots that show. If you're not running the bike for a while, cover the end of the silencer to prevent moisture getting into the system. Start saving for a new pipe!
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Feb 8, 2009 10:18:04 GMT 1
Here are the promised photo's of the job, so far: This was how the centre stand looked like, when I purchased it off "marktplaats": I had it sandblasted and repainted it, first with a rust-preventative primer and then with 2 coats of ordinary black paint. If you read the above posts, you know that I first had to remove the complete exhaust: This is what the bike looks like without the exhaust: After the removal of the exhaust, fitting the centre stand was easy: I drilled an extra hole, in order to spray some WD-40 into the tube of the centre stand, so it wouldn't seize up. Rear wheel off the ground !!!!! Now all I've got to do is re-fit the exhaust............
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Post by Jaz66 on Feb 8, 2009 11:09:23 GMT 1
BRAVO Franklin Outstanding post,... An absolute master class in how to post in any major job on the bike..... ;D after all that prep the stand looks brand new
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Post by McF on Feb 8, 2009 12:16:54 GMT 1
Good work Franklin, well done ;D
I would suggest a closed rubber grommet, or at least some black self amalgamating tape over the hole you have in the centre stand. to keep the cr@p out otherwise you may find you have caused more headache than you solved. It's a good idea, but I've never had a problem with centre stands seizing up. I'll probably stick with my Coppaslip. WD40 is only likely to give marginal, and limited protection and lubrication. We rarely see grease nipples on anything these days. Perhaps after you had drilled the hole, you could have tapped it and fitted a grease nipple for the best of all worlds!
If I can also comment - 3 threads showing is more than enough on any bolt; they look like zinc plated? I'd have gone for stainless steel and then trimmed to length plus three threads exposed.
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Post by rj2para (Bisto) on Feb 8, 2009 18:47:14 GMT 1
Well done great post.
I agree th stand looks like new, I think it was well worth the effort. I always use mine when I fill up.
Thanks for the update I will add it to the fact file in due course. Roger
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Feb 8, 2009 19:39:36 GMT 1
Thanks for the tip: I think that I will cover the hole with some tape. I have thought about fitting a grease nipple, but I think that the material of the tube wasn't thick enough. The bolt are a bit too long. But this was the correct length according to this website: www.oemmotorparts.eu/oem4.asp?M=Honda&T=NTV650&Y=1995&L=HO-NTV650SHowever, I think that I will replace them with shorter & stainless steel ones. Tomorrow I will take the muffler with me to work, to see if I can manage to undo the two remaining bolts from the heat shield. There is an impact screwdriver in the workshop there. Ride safely (especially with all that snow coming in your direction). Franklin
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Post by De Graaf van Salland on Feb 9, 2009 21:21:23 GMT 1
I managed to undo the last two screws of the heat shield today. Like I said, I took the thing with me to work & during my lunch break had a go at the two screws using a impact screw driver. I positioned the muffler in a sandbag, because it has a strange shape and something must withstand the strikes with the hammer. I thought that a sandbag wouldn't damage the underside of the muffler, while it was beaten on the top side. The first screw wasn't a problem. With about 10 easy strikes with the hammer, it started to rotate. Although I had to use some effort, I could unscrew it further with a normal screw driver. The second & last screw was a bit more of a problem............ Untill I found out that (between the first and the second screw) the rotation direction of the impact screw driver had changed Once the correct rotation direction had been set, it took just a few blows to undo the last screw. I shall replace these screws with (stainless steel) bolts with a hexagonal head. This should make it a lot better to undo them in future. If I have any pictures, I will post them. Franklin
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Post by McF on Feb 10, 2009 0:27:47 GMT 1
Good show Franklin, and well spotted that the impact driver had changed direction - easily done and I don't know how!
Don't forget a smear of coppaslip on reassembly!
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