Bike died, has no spark

[bsimoe2]

Hey everyone, I'm new here, and after searching for a long time for similar symptoms that my bike has, without success, I figured I'd just ask directly.

I have a 1993 RC33 NTV 650, bought it in running condition, although it was running a bit rich and was a bit slower than it should. Other than that it was running fine.

I started doing some work on it, stripped the whole plastics and everything to paint the frame, new bearings in the front wheel, and assembled it back up. It was running just the same. As soon as I got some new tyres on, I went for a short ride to warm the bike up to change the oil off the "diff" and engine oil, and suddenly the bike started running pretty poorly. Started running on only the rear cylinder. Turned out the carb diaphragm on the carb for the front cylinder was shot, so I replaced both diaphragms. Still, the bike ran like crap. I put new plugs, checked valve specs, everything was good. Cleaned both carbs thoroughly, but no matter what, the front cylinder wouldn't run properly. Checking for spark with a plug out of the engine, it had decent spark.

I never really found the culprit for this, so out of sheer necessity I had to run around for a couple of days with the bike running only in one cylinder. Just for testing it out, I tried using a 40 year old Toyota Publica coil on the front cylinder, and finally, the engine ran right! Success, I hoped. As I was returning home, though, the bike just died. I could crank the engine for as long as I'd like, the engine would turn forever, but it never tried to start, there was no spark, no combustion whatsoever. This was a couple of months ago, and it frustrated me to the point that I didn't want to keep fiddling around with it.

I've since checked the fuses, everything is working as it should, both ignition coils get power, but only the rear coil produces spark. I tried using other HT leads, still the same result. I bought a used CDI out of suggestion on another thread, the bike still doesn't run, the engine cranks, but there's still no spark. I'm getting really frustrated as I have the bike for over a year now and I've gotten maybe 3 days worth of riding on it, all of those running quite poorly. Any help?

Also, I'm not sure if it is supposed to be like this, but the fuel pump never powers up, not even while cranking, is it normal? I've tested the pump itself and it works, but it never pumps fuel while on the bike.


Parts/work done:
new spark plugs
used CDI
tried different coils
carbs cleaned with brand new diaphragms
valves checked

Thanks in advance and sorry for my broken english


Edit: Also, I forgot to add. There's another smaller issue with the bike: after a while of it running, it developed an oil leak. Oil is dripping from one of the bolts that connects the exhaust to the front cylinder. It's not from the valve cover. What could it be? Did anyone ever experience this?

[Yellow Melos]

Some other suggestions for you...

1. Check the coil packs.. using two multi meters ( there are details on here as to what you should get out of them ) also suggest you put an NTV specific one on.
2. Fuel pump, this has a set of points in the back of it.. worth checking. also take the fuel pipe off the carbs and into a empty fuel can, run the starter and see it it pumps fuel into the can.
3. fuel filter could also be blocked also could be loads of muck in the tank.
4. compression check on the engine, worth doing.. could be valve clearances are not set right or too low or too hight compression so carbon build up on the pistons.
5. have a look at the spark plug colour, should be light brown on the white ceramic next to the electrode. if it's black its too right, if its still white or starting to look melted its too weak. ( i suspect the too weak )
6. carbs.. float might need adjusting, if these are too low you will not get enough fuel, if they are too hight it will run rich.
7. leak from back of engine.. probably the rubber around the head cover leaking, if it is actually leaking out of the bolt there there is a crack in the head ( and that's not good )


have a look at the above, also there is a couple of facebook groups you can join where people will help you.. one is called HONDA NTV REVERE 600-650 MOTORBIKE and the other is called HONDA REVERE NTV650 not that many people post on here anymore.

Hope this helps

[wekltf]

One more suggestion:

- Sometimes the pick-ups are the cause of ignition problems

In many cases, you are able to track the problem by changing parts between the 2 cylinders until you've found the cause.

Regarding the coils: They may look fine when checked with a multimeter, but they still could be faulty (especially when warm
and at high rpms).

Regards

[bsimoe2]

Thanks for the replies. I think I might have missed something in my original post, as I've done so many things on my bike, I can't remember them all.
1. Haven't tried that yet, I'll have to do it though, thanks for the suggestion.
2. the points seem good, I've checked them already. The pump doesn't turn on when I hit the starter though, I've tried that. I tested the pump's connection, and it doesn't get any power to it, thus it can't turn on. Also, I've tested the pump directly to a power source and it pumped fuel just fine.
3. I've also removed the fuel filter temporarily, didn't help. The filter wasn't that bad, actually.
4. Haven't done a compression test yet. The valve clearances were done already.
5. Spark plug colour, I can't really check it. I've cleaned the plugs already after the bike died, and checked their gap, but the bike didn't ran since.
6. Carbs were completely stripped, cleaned, checked, and reassembled. Both are working flawlessly. At least they were when the bike ran. I've since cleaned them yet again, just to make sure.
7. Yeah, I hope it's the valve cover seal leaking. Both are a bit old, and I haven't gotten around to change them just yet.

And the pick-ups, I've checked them too, and at the naked eye they seemed okay. Also I checked the generator thingy (don't know the correct name for it in english) and it was fine too.

I think it could be a mix of bad front cylinder coil and old HT leads, but that wouldn't explain why the fuel pump wouldn't turn on.

Thanks for the help so far, I'll look for those groups on Facebook. Thanks again

[yellow melos]

check the fuel pump relay too, pickups need to be checked with a multimeter, turn the engine over to see if they are generating a signal, check they are getting power too them.. 

I think your problem is not fuel.. but power/pickup problem ( as you have said in the title of this thread )  

so things to check.. 

1. is there power down to the pickups y/n
2. do you get a reading of the multimeter as the engine comes round to make them signal y/n
3. is there power to the coils y/n
4. do they multimeter reading change as the pickups fire them y/n
5. Are all the fuses good and working ( test with a multimeter )


fuel pump relay runs of the of the pickup/coil signals via the computer ( ignition control unit )  it could be the computer had failed, if just needs to be unpluged and repluged.. so check the connection on this for corrosion.

There is also one other posibility... a long shot but worth looking at.. where the wiring loom from middle joins the front bit ( that goes into the headlamp, there is a block connector and a single cable.. make sure this connection is good here.

[bsimoe2]

I checked the fuel pump relay connection, and it didn't get power to it, so even if the relay is dead, it wouldn't mean a thing.

3. Yes, the coils get power to them.
4. Don't know, I haven't checked with a multimeter.
5. Didn't test with a multimeter, but all fuses are good and all of them get power to them.

I changed the computer in the meantime, the bike had no visible difference. the connection itself looks good.

I'll check the other things and that connector too.

Thanks for the help