fuel tap problem

[undercover]

i have ran out of fuel and hit reserve only to realise there is a problem with my fuel tap and the tank is bone dry when turning to reserve.

okwhen the fuel ta is on is up  when off is to the right and reserve it is down.

anyone got any advice this is a fuel petcock issue should be a easy fix but dont realy understand
why the fuel it being used from reserve

[DD]

Nov 10, 2013 12:23:17 GMT 1 odie said:

It also depends if some-one has had the tap off and removed the long copper / brass tube attached to the inside part of the tap.
This is what the normal / on postion on the fuel tap, the fuel flows down till it reach's the top of the tube it can draw no more fuel.
There is a hole next to it, that is the reserve hole, ie. all thew fuel will flow out of your tank with the tap in the reserve position.
I have known of the tube being removed and for the person riding the bike to run out of fuel with the tap in the on position !
Its not nice at 3am in the middle of no-where !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rick

Hope it helps.

[undercover]

thanks for the explination i will have a look one fine summers day but for now i will keep topped up with a full tank.

yeah i have already ran out on a dark country road had to call rac

and then the other day on the exit of the bypass at least that time i guessed it was the fuel tap
and didnt kill my battery trying to start the bike.

the filter that sits over the copper pipe had been discontinued so they are like hen's teeth now

[Buzzin (^_^)]

silly question, the plastic knob hasn't been put on wrong, has it?
You should be able to spot that if the writing on the side panel is in tact....or, if you look closely on the actual fuel tap...

If the filter on the copper pipe is missing, make sure you check your in-line fuel filter more often.....I once forgot mine and after replacing it I found it was supposed to be transparent....not black

[undercover]

the fuel switch is good the original stickers are there in gold look very nice
that was the first thing i checked on here on the forum
i stay in scotland so will wait until summer thats gives me one week this year to take the tank of and check the brass pipe is there.

bad news the fuel filter that fits over the fuel tap is not made anymore i have checked the oem number 16952-KM9-005

hens tooth springs to mind

does anybody know for sure if the brass pipe in the fuel switch '' not made anymore either ''
is removable or should it not be able to be removed from the fuel tap

[rob]

Last week I had the great joy of draining my 14 years-stood-in-the-shed tank and rinsing with caustic then acid to remove the rust scale (works a treat by the way) which all necessitated petcock and filter removal. The petcock came out easy but its filter needed a good yank with a pair of needlenose pliers to release it from the tank's threaded stub. Pretty sure that this created a miniscule tear in two of the lower flter elements so I duly researched a replacement petcock filter.

I found one here at £21 www.bike-parts-honda.com/pieces-honda-detail-2771-13MS9J41-NTV650P-1993-F__1500-NTV+650.html but it seems to be no longer available 5 days later. Worth ringing them?

Or go secondhand with this: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-NTV-REVERE-600-650-FUEL-TAP-/261128370367?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3ccc76b8bf

Halfords large O-ring assortment contains the right size sealing ring.
a
In the end, I checked that Araldite 2-part epoxy steel (which I happened to have lying around) was petrol-proof so I patched the old one (talking a very small hole near the flter base) after washing it and drying thoroughly. Even if the patch fails, there's always the secondary inline filter to strain out any bits before hitting the pump/carbs.

Half a tank later, everything seems fine.

The petcock reserve tube benefited from a polish and a smear of oil to get it through the filter's midway internal seal. I pushed the filter in with a blunt bit of dowel as gently as I could, then the O ring in the orifice and then slid the petcock assembly and tightened the nut.

Being available as a separate part would indicate that the brass tube is take off-able but if you can get a used part you don't need to worry about it as it will come attached.

[rob]

Should add that I seriously doubt the tank filter is unique to the NTV - it is just a plastic reinforced tubular sieve. Worth checking the spec of the CBR600's, for example.

[undercover]

Hi Rob and everyone on the forum back again to try and solve this fuel tap bypassing reserve and leaving me stranded with no petrol and a flat battery on country roads in the pitch dark.

so i have removed the fuel filter well the only thing that came out was the tap and brass tube they where intact.
the gauze filter was stuck in the hole where i just unscrewed the tap from and the rubber seal was around the hole in the recess.
and thankfully in good condition.
i removed the seal and got working slowly with pliers to pull out the gauze filter
i had to give it a good tug to get it out the hole and then i realised how long the filter is.
and it does not look that long in the description on cms maybe they just scaled the image down

www.cmsnl.com/honda-ntv650-revere-1997-englandmkh_model3787/partslist/F__1500.html#results

well after knocking black fluff off the filter i gave it a clean and sat it back on the fuel tap ready to put back on the bike.

is there anything i should check for


i thought there would be holes in the brass tube for reserve but i cant see any
kind of confused how the reserve operates
does the on fuel go down the brass tube and reserve goes down the outside of the brass tube 

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[rob]

Yep, is is a longer filter than I'd imagined too and needlenose pliers were what I removed mine with. It puts up a bit of a fight but we win in the end. The filter is a very snug fit in the fuel outlet and similarly, the brass tube is a very snug fit inside the filter. Apart from the obvious one in the end, there are no visible holes in the brass tube and I don't know how it works - I think that when the tap is in the ON position, the brass tube is snug against the bottom of the petcock's bottom flange but when you switch the RES, it raises the tube a bit and allows petrol to flow unrestricted by the tube. Shorter the tube, the less reserve.

If the gauze was covered in crap, you might have a fuel tank contamination problem. I posted an easy but laborious solution here: ntvhonda.proboards.com/thread/4147/fuel-tank-cleaning

...otherwise it might just get clogged again.

Then again, just draining all the fuel (as you must have done) might have got rid of most of the crud in the tank - just filter it if you plan to put it back in, obviously.

If you completely remove the fuel filler cap (it is only 3 allen bolts), you should be able to use a torch and JUST see inside the bottom tap-side corner of the tank. Let the tanks vent completely first and be careful of your eyes and don't breathe the vapour. But you should be able to see if there's just clean tank or if there's a small puddle of gunky looking rust/petrol emulsion around the outlet pipe. The top end of the outlet pipe intrudes a few mm into the tank so contaminants can be left undrained in the sort of 'sump'. If it isn't clean inside the tank - and that corner is where everything will end up - again, consider rinsing it with caustic then acid as described in the link above.

On re-installation of the now scrupulously clean filter and tap assembly, I smeared oil to lube first the filter (I used a long stick to push mine all the way in as the end of the filter is solid plastic) and then again, once the filter is installed, when inserting the petcock's brass tube into the filter itself. They go back in one at a time, not together. If you meet resistance, the tank's hole might need thoroughly cleaning. If everything is spotless, a few gentle taps will seat the filter and then the petcock (who thought of that name?) better than one big thump.

Don't forget the O ring! Because fitting a new one only cost 75p form Halfords, it seemed like a reasonable precaution. Then again, mine was withered to a very slender circle of hardened rubber.

A benefit of using a new O ring is that you don't need to over-tighten the petcock on reassembly and some adjustment is useful in aligning it properly for the side panel once the tank is back on the bike and the big plastic on-off-res knob is refitted.

Hope this helps!

For what it is worth, my NTV's fuel supply seems to be working just fine after 500-600 miles and a couple of refills.

[rob]

undercover: OK, I just looked at your photos. It looks as if the filter is in great shape but that you might have chewed the end getting it out. This shouldn't matter too much but be sure the rough edge doesn't interfere with the O ring when you put it back together. Also, life will be a lot easier if you remove the plastic on-off-res knob and only putting it back on when the tank's fettled and back on the bike.

[undercover]

Hi Rob

thanks for the advice i have been busy replacing my valve rocker gaskets and cleaning out the carbs
i have to say i agree with you the filter is a pain to get out and i did have to really tug on it to get it out
i thought of using some fine sandpaper to take the roughness out the bottom but have been so busy with other parts of the bike i just reassembled as is.

having bought my ntv last year and previous owner left it outside everything i touch on it turns to cheese
so i have had to replace every screw on the bike i have just taken the carbs off to clean them and half the screws have rounded and mole grips got the rest off.

so that leaves me with no screws to reassemble the carbs
start to think no one stocks honda parts even honda so came up with a brain wave.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDPeKlrIdeQ

i bought M4 screws from screwfix £1.50 for 25 the screws that fit the carb are m4 10mm long and the 16mm long
i just used my electricians pliers to cut the screws

never again will i ever order overpriced screws from dealerships

[undercover]

oh yeah just a disclaimer for anyone who take it upon themselves to use the cutting screws tool
as they should be cut with electricians pliers

dont be tempted if you are doing a few screws to do them with your hands like the video
my advice is place the tool with the screw set up onto a flat surface with the hand grips away from you and a rubber hammer to just tap the handle.
reason why if your thumb makes contact with the inner tool when your squeezing both hands together
well i am sure you can work out for yourself what might happen.
lucky i still have both thumbs but not without the loss of some blood

[De Graaf van Salland]

Aug 9, 2014 1:08:59 GMT 1 undercover said:

oh yeah just a disclaimer for anyone who take it upon themselves to use the cutting screws tool
as they should be cut with electricians pliers

dont be tempted if you are doing a few screws to do them with your hands like the video
my advice is place the tool with the screw set up onto a flat surface with the hand grips away from you and a rubber hammer to just tap the handle.
reason why if your thumb makes contact with the inner tool when your squeezing both hands together
well i am sure you can work out for yourself what might happen.
lucky i still have both thumbs but not without the loss of some blood

Thanx for the warning & good luck with the recovery

GvS

[undercover]

thank you De Graaf van Salland

the recovery is my ntv 650 it was not in good health i had to replace rocker cover gaskets and clean the carbs

it has taken 2 days and a sore thumb i have also learned a lot as it was my first time doing these