Post by rj2para (Bisto) on Dec 28, 2008 22:41:27 GMT 1
I think I have found some more interesting stuff for our Tyre fact files.
As a first cut/sift of Tyres Part 2
What is the general thoughts on tyres ,
What is everyone else using ?
and What are do you think about them ,
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My tyres are about ready. Has anyone tried radials on an NTV? pairs for Bandits are on offer with similar sizes.
Anyone know a good source for tyres in any case please?
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What about this place I put the Maxxis on 3 months ago seems good to me and only £43 inc p&p.
www.pneus-online.co.uk/motorcycle-tyre-150-70-r17-69-H.html
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Managed to get a couple of radials. First impressions are that they feel no different to a new set of x-plies. I'll see what they're like in the wet.
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I put a Metzeler Tourance on the back. Big and chunky for those muddy backroads. Plenty grip right to the edge, wet or dry. Unorthodox maybe, but it was cheap and looks mighty aggressive.
check this out - I just had to find out what they looked like
www.intobikes.co.uk/popups/imageviewer.php?id=000477
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Too right DP. Once had an MZ with the original tyres- slightest bit of damp and it was walking pace around roundabouts, but by eck you couldnt wear them out After that, anything is an improvement.
By the way- the radials seem a bit more secure on slippery surfaces, but then again I don't tend to test the limits.
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well as i've just returned from a run down the coast from Portrush to cushendall and across country to Ballymena then straight roads back home,about 90 miles all in heavy rain i can say i'm happy with my Metezler lasertecs,seem to grip well even on some tight twisties in heavy rain.
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Cheers for the update on Metezler lasertec.
Bikes due new tyres soon, was considering simply replacing BT 45'S.
But might consider the Metz now.
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Used to use Bridgestone Exedra or Battlax, now swear by Michelin radials. Superbly stable in cross winds which we get a lot of as I ride along the norht bank of the Humber estuary (you know it, where that long bridge is) Won't go back to Xplys ever. Used to use Michelin Macadem, noe Pilor Road. Like I say in cross winds far more stable and good in the wet too, but expect slightly less mileage per rear tyre.
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I use avon av45 on the front and av46 on the rear, get them from m&p they usually have an offer on around xmas for 99 quid a pair. get 9 thou from the front and 12 from the rear, would definitely recommend them so much better in the wet than bt45's
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I run BT45s but like you say not much good in the wet but I've never had avons before. dou really get 12tho outta the rear? I'm in need of a front so i may try them out
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They are the avon azaro st tyres i run a slightly smaller front tyre 110/70/17 as thats the one in the offer, i also tend to run my tyres down to 1mm to get the maximum value from them
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Yes NTV2- I got a 110/70 on the front too. It works great, but don't it look skinny compared with the standard size.
I still can't get to grips with 12k miles from a rear tyre though. I thought I was gentle on the throttle and brakes, but that's astounding. Bill
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12k miles from a rear tyre ,how do you manage that , i know these bikes are cheap to run but i would be happy with 6 to 8k,wouldn't recomend going down to 1mm with the state of our roads !!!!!!!!,you must be a easy rider
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My commute to work is 3 miles back roads, 14 miles dual carrigeway, 40 miles motorway then 4 miles A roads to work, do it all at about 60-70. the centre of the tyres wear out long before the edges. the last rear did 11671 miles before it went below 1mm
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The legal limit on a bike is 1mm, anyway there are those little wear indicators in between the tyres tread.
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Yeah you’r right but as i only have two wheels on my bike and the state of the roads plus the partially sighted car drivers ect ect i always change mine at about 2mm,just a personal choice,each to their own
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As i've said in previous posts the Metezler laser tecs i've got are excellent wet and dry, was pointed to them by a dispatch rider up from Dublin on a NTV,he recommended them to me and i fully agree, but tyres are a personal choice, everyone has their favourites, what one person swears by another will think are rubbish, guess it's really trial and error until you find a make you personally feel comfortable with,
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The Avon Azaro is a touring tyre with a harder compound in the centre area supposedly to increase mileage. Got them on my VFR and they're about half worn at 6k, most of which has been straight line motorway riding. Spose that's pretty good really. Had Bridgestone BT020's before that, also a touring tyre, I remember them being more squared off at 6k than the Avons are. Looking forward to a smaller tyre bill with the NTV.
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On my DV I had BT45s and was always very happy with them - secure on the corners but with harder wearing centre section.
On my NTV I have Bridgestone Exedras - not impressed with the grip on the corners - about a week after getting the bike had my first experience of rear wheel slip as I banked over slightly on an uphill slip road onto the A1 northbound (north Stevenage) doing about 50 - yes, it was wet but I would have had no qualms about doing that on the DV (DV does have a tonne of weight at the back though - panniers ...).
I have thought of going to Avon rubber, being a good brit, but I'm not sure where to pitch it - had thought of roadriders but my experience with the exedras (I think they are Bridgestone's equivalent) has put me off a bit - maytbe I should go for the new Storm ST if they to the front in the NTV size.
If anyone's interested .. I spoke to Avon Tyres yesterday - they are phasing out the Azaro ST completely and do not intend doing a Storm ST tyre in 110/80ZR17 .. size isn't popular enough. They said you could be okay using Storm ST on tha back and 110/80H17 roadrider on the front.
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Here's a question on tyres. Has anyone who has changed to radials investigated what tyre pressures should be used? Standard 33psi or what, please?
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I've always run radials usually pump em up to 33 34 ish havent had any probs on the corners.
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Pressure for radials (e.g. Bridgestones BT020) 36psi front and 42 psi rear......
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Why the higher pressure for radials? I know the recommended rear pressure is 42 for 2-up riding, should that be even higher if running radials?
When I had my tyres fitted (too lazy to do it myself) the guy’s checked their list and it was and it was 36 front and 42 rear for the BT020 radials. They also suggested that given the relatively light weight of the NTV, pillion settings for rear tyres were OK for normal use.
Just as an experiment I tried lower pressures of 33 front and rear, but found that the bike ran better on higher pressures, engine seemed less stressed at speed and MPG was improved. Also, had no problems in the wet or with excessive wear. Didn’t have any problems in cold conditions with the tyres warming up either.
But you need to try this for yourself, you may prefer the lower pressures. I did have some info on tyre pressures from the manufacturer’s but can’t find it at the moment, but I did check and found that tyre pressures were correct….
Here’s an extract from the Divvy 600 and 900 forum:
“Leo Smith spent years as chief development tester at Avon tyres. He is now motorcycle product manager. He said: " We probably get asked more about tyre pressures than about any other aspect of a tyre. " There’s so much bad information kicking about that people can’t separate the truth from fiction. "
Smith says that is largely the fault of tyre companies themselves. Several years ago, different tyre companies recommended different pressures for different tyres and different bikes. But around 10 years ago, a decision was reached between the companies to standardise pressures so that most bikes can run on the same no matter what tyres they’re on. That standard is 36psi at the front and 42psi at the rear **** “
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Are the Storm ST and Road Rider both radials? ..
The storm ST is Avon's latest radial. The roadrider is Avon's latest bias cross-ply.
The man at Avon (think his name was Pete McNully) seems to be their technical expert for bike tyres and until recently used to answer any tyre questions in the Motorcycle Sport and Leisure magazine. He said it's fine to mix radials and bias cross-ply on a bike so long as the radial is on the back - he also happens to have been a one time owner of an NTV!
The Azaro ST was Avon's previous "sport-touring" radial, and 110/80-17 was available in that range - you can probably still pick one up if you want to - but they are phasing the Azaro ST out completely (Storm ST taking over)
My conclusion is really that the StormST/RoadRider combination is a compromise and I'll be sticking to the tame tyre type on front and back.
I know we're all waxing lyrical about radials, but ('cos I so desperately want to be a good Brit!!) I will probably try RoadRiders front and back for my next pair ('bout £95 for the pair from Busters at the moment). Perhaps the fact that the're cheap has got something to do with my decision as well .
On tyre pressures for radials .. Jakes comment re 36/42 for front /rear is borne out by that fact that those are the pressures specified for the (Radial equipped) Deauville both solo and pillion.
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As I'm doing 2-3000 miles a month my next set of tyres is never going to be far away. As it's mostly motorway miles, the current set are squaring off quite quickly. It will be false economy, in my situation, to fit anything other than a high mileage 'touring' tyre, when I factor in fitting costs 4 times a year.
I dont know whether the tyres I had on my VFR are an option for the NTV? Avon Azaro ST's sound like they are an option if still available before they phase out. The new Storm ST isn't available in the correct front size.
I previously had Bridgestone BT020's on the VFR, not sure what the current equivalent touring tyre is?
Pirelli Diablo Stradas were also recommended for high mileage and grip, anybody had those on an NTV?
Any other recommendations for high mileage?
BTW my NTV currently has odd tyres from when I bought it last month, Bridgestone BT020 rear, Michelin Macadam front. Doesn't seem to upset the handling / grip, although I have nothing to compare with!
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New replacement for the BT-020 is the BT-021 but I’ve no doubt that the old 020 is still available if you look around, probably at a discounted price….
I’ve used 020’s in the past because on the NTV they seem to last a long time. Good grip in wet conditions, but there may be tyres better suited to the NTV, I’ve not tried BT-45s for example….
I think the bike was fitted with BT-57s when I first bought it. Grip was absolutely brilliant but they didn’t seem to last that long….
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This is what Avon have to say about the Roadrider on their website:
"
* Ideal for mid-range bikes
* Large contact patch for excellent grip at all lean angles
* 149mph=240kmh speed rating across the range
* Central tread groove to resist 'white-lining'
* Comprehensive range of sizes
When you rely on your bike as everyday transport, you want tyres that combine outstanding performance with long life; that's why you choose Avon's Roadrider. The Roadrider's rubber compound is specially formulated to give excellent roadholding year-round, while its carcass design provides a large 'footprint' at all lean angles. This tyre's high performance credentials are reinforced by the fact that all Roadriders are speed rated up to 149mph (240kph).
Another feature of the Roadrider that commuters in particular will appreciate is its central tread groove, designed to resist the 'white-lining' effect that can occur when riding over thickly applied road marker paint. A large range of sizes means that the Roadrider is ideal for a wide variety of bikes, including more traditional types.
"
Avon seem to be gearing this tyre to couriers/dispatchers/commuters. When I spoke to Pete McNully @ Avon I quizzed him about the roadrider rubber. He said it's quite a soft rubber but there's lots of tread, so while you get decent grip you also get a good lifetime out of them.
I figure that these tyres ought to be pretty good for guys ('n' girls!) doin lots of miles based on the market they are aiming at.
Aside about "Silica rich rubber": My initial question about roadriders was whether the rubber was a silica rich type as I was aware that "eco tyres" use this technology. He said silica is only added to "hard" rubber compounds. The hard rubber is used to give good lifetime and the silica then helps with grip / wet weather performance.
Amazing as it may seem, I'm not actually getting commission from Avon!
Yeah my VFR had BT57s on it when purchased in 2002 (it was an old tyre even then). Back tyre self-destructed in no time.
If the BT021 is their current touring tyre, I assume the BT45 is a 'standard' tyre if you know what I mean? I really need something that will give me maximum mileage.
Re. Avons, anybody tried a set of Road Riders? Any good?
As i've mentioned before,i've got Metzler Lastec's on as recomended to me by a dispatch rider,and those guys know their stuff in my experience.He told me the Metzlers were a cracking all rounder giving good wet weather grip and mileage,i can't vouch for the mileage as i've only 3000 miles on them but the wet weather grip is excellent.
As for the Avon Road Riders,well they have to be better than the Road Runners,i made the mistake of fitting them to my old XJR 1200 !!!!!!!!!,terrible in the wet and worse over white lines !!!!!!!!!,always went with 020's which as already mentioned are a cracking all round tyre.
Tyres really are a individual thing, i've said i hated the Avon's but i know others out there will say they were a great tyre,it's all down to personal choice,
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The BT45 is the tyre Bridgestone recommend for the NTV - it's a bias cross ply with a dual rubber compound - harder centre section to give high mileage but with softer edges to give good grip on corners.
Did 10k on BT45s on my Deauville and thought they were great. Rear wasn't new when I got it and I replaced it with another BT45 about 6k into my ownership. The front was new when I got the bike and after 10k miles still had a 1 or 2mm until it would have hit the tread-wear indicator . Never had a dodgy moment with the BT45s.
I think the BT21 is the successor to the BT020 - both radial, and I would be gobsmacked if anywone could get more miles out of them than out of a BT45.
Bridgestone's name for the BT45 is "Sport Mileage" .. presumable they call it that for a reason .
I would put BT45s on my NTV when they need replacing were it not for my obsession with wanting to support British stuff
.. Why then,you might ask, have I got an NTV and not a Sprint ST ?
A: Can't justify myself, but I think the NTV is one of the best sorted out bikes that has ever been - Honda went way over the top and seem to have done everything right on this bike - they did things they didn't need to (pro-arm) and everywhere you look on the bike you can see attention to detail that makes the thing a pleasure to own ( okay, you rumbled me - I'm a design engineer).
It's these things that attracted me to the NTV, resulted in me ditching the DV in favour of the NTV, and apart from riding the machine make me pleased to have one!
Here’s what Bridgestone say about the new BT-021:
“Having set performance standards worldwide with the renowned sport touring BT-020 (NT), Bridgestone has now gone one better. Its successor, the new Battlax BT-021, is a true luxury sport tyre, with confident front-end feel, high stability both on motorways and winding roads, strong grip on wet and dry, and plenty of shock absorption for comfortable long journeys. It beats BT-020 performance on all major criteria, including higher mileage in all riding modes.”
As I say, I’ve only ever fitted BT-020’s which have given excellent mileage on the NTV.
But this result may be artificial, because I’ve always added UtraSeal which may extend tyre life under normal use (it definitely adds to the price of the tyres at around £24 a bottle!!!).
www.ultrasealnorth.co.uk/
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Tried many type's/size's. Oversize rear is no good as the center wears out too quickly but a 140 rear does well and handle's fine. Much the same can be said for the front especially if the profile is 60 or 70 as in most current bike's.
Radials do not wear well on anything, they do grip a tad better for high powered bikes. The reason is not easly explained as most folk associate radials with good wear on cars etc. Car tyre's sit flat to the floor but bike tyre's are an entirely differant shape and have a very differant job to do which mean's the advantage of a radial to put more of a flat spot on the road by flexing gets wasted by excess wear on a two wheeler.
Modern x/ply's would grip fine for most people with mid range bike's but they are buying sporty tyre's cause that's what everyone else is useing and there is also a confidance mind game.
In other word's if we buy the sticky stuff it wont slide. How many realise that when the track is wet racers resort to more ordinary tyre's although still radials for the production type machines
Does anyone want to go back to TT100s or Roadrunner's. I wouldnt think so. Just the same the mad dog's of the eara (me included) were able to scrape pipes and stands to peices.
I got caught up in the radial way for a time also, at least up untill I had a run on an st1100 which although a tourer is also nimble. It had x/ply tyre's albeit proper modern one's and I could not fault them. It did make me think though. ST1100s, Wings and cruisers get much more miles per tyre than the radial equiped stuff so I have tried a few and am very happy with Metz Lasertec's. A whole heap cheaper than radials also. They will follow small track's in the road a little more than radials but that dont disturb me as I can see the track and know whats going on. The Lasertec I feel is the best although there is other modern x/ply's. Also check out what the tyre manufacturer recomends for your bike.
So if you want wear dont go down the radial route.
M & P do Avon Roadrider rears for £52.99, which incidentally is the tyre that Avon recommend for the NTV (i.e. not radials). My local place has quoted £69 inc. fitting to a loose wheel. Metz Lasertecs seem to be a little more expensive but otherwise comparable.
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Finally got around to replacing my BT45's
Went to shop got Avon Roadriders fitted..
£155 the pair.
Fitted fri 4th aug (41,800 miles)
So far ok.
Dont seem to follow cracks in road as easily as the BT45's (altho they were down to the limit..! )
Weathers been real sunny since then, so can't comment on wet riding.
Happy with the handling so far.
(altho i am still taking it easy on the corners, d**n those warnings about scrubbing in for 100 miles ... )
Will update when the rain arrives.
Quote:
"Yeah my VFR had BT57s on it when purchased in 2002 (it was an old tyre even then). Back tyre self-destructed in no time."
Come to think of it, the BT020 on the back of my NTV is rapidly giving up. Every day when I look at it, it's got nearer the mark. Like the BT57 I mentioned above, the tyre is actually 'peeling' bits of rubber off the centre tread. I'll be lucky if it makes it to the end of the month (payday).
This seems to be a trait of Bridgestones as they near the end of their life - you think you've got a 1000 miles or so to go but they seem to self-destruct at this point. As I do 160 miles / day I honestly doubt it will make it to the end of the week.
TBH I can't see the point of Z-rated tyres on a bike that produces 57bhp!
Earlier in this thread you questioned the notion of 36psi front, and 42 rear for the BT020 radials. And then in a later thread you said:
"BTW my NTV currently has odd tyres from when I bought it last month, Bridgestone BT020 rear, Michelin Macadam front. Doesn't seem to upset the handling / grip, although I have nothing to compare with!"
Not sure what this means? Did you fit the rear BT020 new or was it already fitted when you bought the bike, in other words secondhand? And what was the tyre pressure in the rear BT020?
Please don’t tell me it was the Haynes manual recommendation of only 33psi. If the pressure was that low then it doesn’t surprise me if it wore out earlier than expected….
Like I say we all have our own tyre preferences. On Hovis’s recommendation, I may well try the Metz lasertechs next time round. But I’ve never had any problems with BT020’s…..
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Jazz it looks like you're the front runner in the Avon RoadRiders evaluation .
Interested to hear how they shape up in different weathers and how well they wear.
( must get back to Avon and claim that commission they talked about . )
Like I said originally (as quoted above), when I bought the bike in June it was already fitted with a Michelin Macadam up front and BT020 rear. Rear pressure was at 33psi but I've since increased it to 42psi.
I don't know how many miles the tyres have done, except for the 4000 I've done since 22/6/07 (mostly motorway between Caerphilly and Swindon). It's just that in the last week the rear has shredded rubber like a crayon on hot tarmac!
Obviously with the miles I'm doing no tyre is going to last a long time, but I'm minded to try Roadriders or Lasertecs from a cost point of view if I can get similar mileage (and grip) out of them.
Everyday my confidence grows.
Fully scrubbed in now.
Bends are getting easier, around london (Crap roads)
they wander less and feel more secure.
Obviously the wet weather will provide the 'proof of the pudding'
had it out in drizzle..OK but nothing too 'monsoon' Like..
Will update as and when I can add to the details
Recommended Tyres For NTV/Revere, 110/80 front and 150/70 rear....
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Avon
ST 22 front
AV 281 rear
AV 27 front
AV 281 rear
AM 51 Hkm front
AM 52 Hkm rear
AV 45 Azaro-ST front
AV 46 Azaro-ST rear
AV 45 Azaro-ST front
AV 56 Strom ST rear
AM26 Roadrider front
AM 26 Roadrider rear
Bridgestone
Exedra G 547 G front
Exedra G 548 rear
BT 35 F
BT 35 R
BT 45 F
BT 45 R
Dunlop
K 505 G front
K 505 rear
D 205 F (Sportmax Touring) front
D 205 rear
IRC
RS 320 front
RS 320 rear
Metzeler
ME 33 front
ME 55 A rear
ME 330 front
ME 550 rear
LASERTEC 57H TL front
LASERTEC 69H TL rear
ME Z1 front
ME Z2 rear
ME Z2 front
ME Z2 rear
Pirelli
MTR 03 (Dragon GT) front
MTR 04 rear
MTR 23 (Dragon GTS) front
MTR 24 rear
Sport Demon front
Sport Demon rear
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I've got BT45's on the front and back and couldn't fault them (i do about 400 miles a week).
However, my new (to me) ntv will need both new tyres soonish and i was wondering what the comparisons are. I don't mind changing, i'm not brand loyal at all.
Is there scope on this site to run a comparison table? like a voting thing that users can give votes for a particular make?
I suppose tyres are just another variable, people like different ones for different reasons...
Tyres are a variable and everyone has their own notion. I use this word as I see many bikes being sold with tyres the new owner doesnt prefer. More often than not when it comes around to fitting replacements they mostly opt for the ones they didnt origonally prefer because they had got used to them and couldnt see anything wrong with them.
There is far too much rubbish in the press about what has the best grip etc. There is almost nothing about everyday tyres. This is of no use to every day bikers.
I put a posting on not long back and tried to stay unbiased although I do mention what tyres I am currently using. I also tried to explain why radials dont wear so good. I also have a posting about the price.
Look it up.
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I've just found and read (all of) your posts. Interesting stuff and i'll have a look at where i can get them from. Where about's do you get your tyres? I agree with what you say about 'inheriting' tyres that one wouldn't normally pick and then getting used to them. Would you mind telling me the model of tyres you use?
I currently wear Lasertec's in standard sizes.
Back on topic, my NTV has a Macadam on the front (and a Bridgestone BT020 rear for some reason) from when I bought it in June. Seem OK in the wet, but that may be because I don't trust any tyre too much in the wet!
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Got Avon roadriders a few weeks back week (5th aug)
Finally scrubbed in (warwick and back...... )
all sunshine riding until a few days ago, then wet riding
..Very wet riding ...........
So how did they do..?
Very well......
Leans in wet...No problem.
White lines......A little give but confident .
Tracking cracks..Just rides over broken roads......
All told I am very happy.
Sunny days ..sticky
Wet days ....grippy
Wear.......time will tell.
Ice and snow ...........No way am I gonna find out,
unless I have to.
(Ride out dry, snows while i am away, what can you do...... )
Each to there own, but Avon road riders?....Ok by me...........
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Great to hear the good reports about the RoadRiders. If they last well seems like Avon really have produced something for us.
My bike is still on OEM Bridgestone Exedras, and I still don't like them ..grip in wet they don't! Trouble is, I'm a bit tight, so I'm just being extra careful 'til they wear down a bit ... Mind you, they've got a lot more wear near the edges in the 1300 miles I've done on this bike so far than they seem to have got before.
Keep us posted on the RoadRiders as the mile rack up!
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Hiya all, I went with the trusty BT45's in the end....better the devil you know, etc.
although, at £140 plus £30 fitting, a bit steep (although what price do you put on feeling safe on ya bike?)
I'd be interested to hear about the Avon wear and wet performance.
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I'm on BT45R front and rear. I've done circa 5k miles and I'm pleased with them. I live in North Yorkshire and with the summer too, many of those have been (very!) wet miles.
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Got 5k out of my rear Road Rider so far - fitted August - profile not squaring off yet which is promising given that I do 160 miles a day of almost all motorway. Handling and grip seem fine, my last 8 miles home is twisty country roads so I get a chance to relieve the boredom and scuff the edges a bit. It looks like it'll easily last another 5k (the target) and probably quite a bit more. BTW the motorway stuff is usually between 75 and 90 so I'm not being too easy on it.
Road Rider going on front when the Bridgestone wears out.....
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This post was made possible due to the contributions of the following NTV members;
derbyshirebill, pops, hovis, dpmiller, jaz66, hovis, johnw, ntv2, mexicanbandit, everydaybiker, tweaker, Jake, honda and hoonose.
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As a first cut/sift of Tyres Part 2
What is the general thoughts on tyres ,
What is everyone else using ?
and What are do you think about them ,
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My tyres are about ready. Has anyone tried radials on an NTV? pairs for Bandits are on offer with similar sizes.
Anyone know a good source for tyres in any case please?
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What about this place I put the Maxxis on 3 months ago seems good to me and only £43 inc p&p.
www.pneus-online.co.uk/motorcycle-tyre-150-70-r17-69-H.html
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Managed to get a couple of radials. First impressions are that they feel no different to a new set of x-plies. I'll see what they're like in the wet.
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I put a Metzeler Tourance on the back. Big and chunky for those muddy backroads. Plenty grip right to the edge, wet or dry. Unorthodox maybe, but it was cheap and looks mighty aggressive.
check this out - I just had to find out what they looked like
www.intobikes.co.uk/popups/imageviewer.php?id=000477
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Too right DP. Once had an MZ with the original tyres- slightest bit of damp and it was walking pace around roundabouts, but by eck you couldnt wear them out After that, anything is an improvement.
By the way- the radials seem a bit more secure on slippery surfaces, but then again I don't tend to test the limits.
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well as i've just returned from a run down the coast from Portrush to cushendall and across country to Ballymena then straight roads back home,about 90 miles all in heavy rain i can say i'm happy with my Metezler lasertecs,seem to grip well even on some tight twisties in heavy rain.
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Cheers for the update on Metezler lasertec.
Bikes due new tyres soon, was considering simply replacing BT 45'S.
But might consider the Metz now.
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Used to use Bridgestone Exedra or Battlax, now swear by Michelin radials. Superbly stable in cross winds which we get a lot of as I ride along the norht bank of the Humber estuary (you know it, where that long bridge is) Won't go back to Xplys ever. Used to use Michelin Macadem, noe Pilor Road. Like I say in cross winds far more stable and good in the wet too, but expect slightly less mileage per rear tyre.
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I use avon av45 on the front and av46 on the rear, get them from m&p they usually have an offer on around xmas for 99 quid a pair. get 9 thou from the front and 12 from the rear, would definitely recommend them so much better in the wet than bt45's
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I run BT45s but like you say not much good in the wet but I've never had avons before. dou really get 12tho outta the rear? I'm in need of a front so i may try them out
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They are the avon azaro st tyres i run a slightly smaller front tyre 110/70/17 as thats the one in the offer, i also tend to run my tyres down to 1mm to get the maximum value from them
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Yes NTV2- I got a 110/70 on the front too. It works great, but don't it look skinny compared with the standard size.
I still can't get to grips with 12k miles from a rear tyre though. I thought I was gentle on the throttle and brakes, but that's astounding. Bill
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12k miles from a rear tyre ,how do you manage that , i know these bikes are cheap to run but i would be happy with 6 to 8k,wouldn't recomend going down to 1mm with the state of our roads !!!!!!!!,you must be a easy rider
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My commute to work is 3 miles back roads, 14 miles dual carrigeway, 40 miles motorway then 4 miles A roads to work, do it all at about 60-70. the centre of the tyres wear out long before the edges. the last rear did 11671 miles before it went below 1mm
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The legal limit on a bike is 1mm, anyway there are those little wear indicators in between the tyres tread.
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Yeah you’r right but as i only have two wheels on my bike and the state of the roads plus the partially sighted car drivers ect ect i always change mine at about 2mm,just a personal choice,each to their own
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As i've said in previous posts the Metezler laser tecs i've got are excellent wet and dry, was pointed to them by a dispatch rider up from Dublin on a NTV,he recommended them to me and i fully agree, but tyres are a personal choice, everyone has their favourites, what one person swears by another will think are rubbish, guess it's really trial and error until you find a make you personally feel comfortable with,
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The Avon Azaro is a touring tyre with a harder compound in the centre area supposedly to increase mileage. Got them on my VFR and they're about half worn at 6k, most of which has been straight line motorway riding. Spose that's pretty good really. Had Bridgestone BT020's before that, also a touring tyre, I remember them being more squared off at 6k than the Avons are. Looking forward to a smaller tyre bill with the NTV.
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On my DV I had BT45s and was always very happy with them - secure on the corners but with harder wearing centre section.
On my NTV I have Bridgestone Exedras - not impressed with the grip on the corners - about a week after getting the bike had my first experience of rear wheel slip as I banked over slightly on an uphill slip road onto the A1 northbound (north Stevenage) doing about 50 - yes, it was wet but I would have had no qualms about doing that on the DV (DV does have a tonne of weight at the back though - panniers ...).
I have thought of going to Avon rubber, being a good brit, but I'm not sure where to pitch it - had thought of roadriders but my experience with the exedras (I think they are Bridgestone's equivalent) has put me off a bit - maytbe I should go for the new Storm ST if they to the front in the NTV size.
If anyone's interested .. I spoke to Avon Tyres yesterday - they are phasing out the Azaro ST completely and do not intend doing a Storm ST tyre in 110/80ZR17 .. size isn't popular enough. They said you could be okay using Storm ST on tha back and 110/80H17 roadrider on the front.
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Here's a question on tyres. Has anyone who has changed to radials investigated what tyre pressures should be used? Standard 33psi or what, please?
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I've always run radials usually pump em up to 33 34 ish havent had any probs on the corners.
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Pressure for radials (e.g. Bridgestones BT020) 36psi front and 42 psi rear......
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Why the higher pressure for radials? I know the recommended rear pressure is 42 for 2-up riding, should that be even higher if running radials?
When I had my tyres fitted (too lazy to do it myself) the guy’s checked their list and it was and it was 36 front and 42 rear for the BT020 radials. They also suggested that given the relatively light weight of the NTV, pillion settings for rear tyres were OK for normal use.
Just as an experiment I tried lower pressures of 33 front and rear, but found that the bike ran better on higher pressures, engine seemed less stressed at speed and MPG was improved. Also, had no problems in the wet or with excessive wear. Didn’t have any problems in cold conditions with the tyres warming up either.
But you need to try this for yourself, you may prefer the lower pressures. I did have some info on tyre pressures from the manufacturer’s but can’t find it at the moment, but I did check and found that tyre pressures were correct….
Here’s an extract from the Divvy 600 and 900 forum:
“Leo Smith spent years as chief development tester at Avon tyres. He is now motorcycle product manager. He said: " We probably get asked more about tyre pressures than about any other aspect of a tyre. " There’s so much bad information kicking about that people can’t separate the truth from fiction. "
Smith says that is largely the fault of tyre companies themselves. Several years ago, different tyre companies recommended different pressures for different tyres and different bikes. But around 10 years ago, a decision was reached between the companies to standardise pressures so that most bikes can run on the same no matter what tyres they’re on. That standard is 36psi at the front and 42psi at the rear **** “
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Are the Storm ST and Road Rider both radials? ..
The storm ST is Avon's latest radial. The roadrider is Avon's latest bias cross-ply.
The man at Avon (think his name was Pete McNully) seems to be their technical expert for bike tyres and until recently used to answer any tyre questions in the Motorcycle Sport and Leisure magazine. He said it's fine to mix radials and bias cross-ply on a bike so long as the radial is on the back - he also happens to have been a one time owner of an NTV!
The Azaro ST was Avon's previous "sport-touring" radial, and 110/80-17 was available in that range - you can probably still pick one up if you want to - but they are phasing the Azaro ST out completely (Storm ST taking over)
My conclusion is really that the StormST/RoadRider combination is a compromise and I'll be sticking to the tame tyre type on front and back.
I know we're all waxing lyrical about radials, but ('cos I so desperately want to be a good Brit!!) I will probably try RoadRiders front and back for my next pair ('bout £95 for the pair from Busters at the moment). Perhaps the fact that the're cheap has got something to do with my decision as well .
On tyre pressures for radials .. Jakes comment re 36/42 for front /rear is borne out by that fact that those are the pressures specified for the (Radial equipped) Deauville both solo and pillion.
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As I'm doing 2-3000 miles a month my next set of tyres is never going to be far away. As it's mostly motorway miles, the current set are squaring off quite quickly. It will be false economy, in my situation, to fit anything other than a high mileage 'touring' tyre, when I factor in fitting costs 4 times a year.
I dont know whether the tyres I had on my VFR are an option for the NTV? Avon Azaro ST's sound like they are an option if still available before they phase out. The new Storm ST isn't available in the correct front size.
I previously had Bridgestone BT020's on the VFR, not sure what the current equivalent touring tyre is?
Pirelli Diablo Stradas were also recommended for high mileage and grip, anybody had those on an NTV?
Any other recommendations for high mileage?
BTW my NTV currently has odd tyres from when I bought it last month, Bridgestone BT020 rear, Michelin Macadam front. Doesn't seem to upset the handling / grip, although I have nothing to compare with!
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New replacement for the BT-020 is the BT-021 but I’ve no doubt that the old 020 is still available if you look around, probably at a discounted price….
I’ve used 020’s in the past because on the NTV they seem to last a long time. Good grip in wet conditions, but there may be tyres better suited to the NTV, I’ve not tried BT-45s for example….
I think the bike was fitted with BT-57s when I first bought it. Grip was absolutely brilliant but they didn’t seem to last that long….
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This is what Avon have to say about the Roadrider on their website:
"
* Ideal for mid-range bikes
* Large contact patch for excellent grip at all lean angles
* 149mph=240kmh speed rating across the range
* Central tread groove to resist 'white-lining'
* Comprehensive range of sizes
When you rely on your bike as everyday transport, you want tyres that combine outstanding performance with long life; that's why you choose Avon's Roadrider. The Roadrider's rubber compound is specially formulated to give excellent roadholding year-round, while its carcass design provides a large 'footprint' at all lean angles. This tyre's high performance credentials are reinforced by the fact that all Roadriders are speed rated up to 149mph (240kph).
Another feature of the Roadrider that commuters in particular will appreciate is its central tread groove, designed to resist the 'white-lining' effect that can occur when riding over thickly applied road marker paint. A large range of sizes means that the Roadrider is ideal for a wide variety of bikes, including more traditional types.
"
Avon seem to be gearing this tyre to couriers/dispatchers/commuters. When I spoke to Pete McNully @ Avon I quizzed him about the roadrider rubber. He said it's quite a soft rubber but there's lots of tread, so while you get decent grip you also get a good lifetime out of them.
I figure that these tyres ought to be pretty good for guys ('n' girls!) doin lots of miles based on the market they are aiming at.
Aside about "Silica rich rubber": My initial question about roadriders was whether the rubber was a silica rich type as I was aware that "eco tyres" use this technology. He said silica is only added to "hard" rubber compounds. The hard rubber is used to give good lifetime and the silica then helps with grip / wet weather performance.
Amazing as it may seem, I'm not actually getting commission from Avon!
Yeah my VFR had BT57s on it when purchased in 2002 (it was an old tyre even then). Back tyre self-destructed in no time.
If the BT021 is their current touring tyre, I assume the BT45 is a 'standard' tyre if you know what I mean? I really need something that will give me maximum mileage.
Re. Avons, anybody tried a set of Road Riders? Any good?
As i've mentioned before,i've got Metzler Lastec's on as recomended to me by a dispatch rider,and those guys know their stuff in my experience.He told me the Metzlers were a cracking all rounder giving good wet weather grip and mileage,i can't vouch for the mileage as i've only 3000 miles on them but the wet weather grip is excellent.
As for the Avon Road Riders,well they have to be better than the Road Runners,i made the mistake of fitting them to my old XJR 1200 !!!!!!!!!,terrible in the wet and worse over white lines !!!!!!!!!,always went with 020's which as already mentioned are a cracking all round tyre.
Tyres really are a individual thing, i've said i hated the Avon's but i know others out there will say they were a great tyre,it's all down to personal choice,
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The BT45 is the tyre Bridgestone recommend for the NTV - it's a bias cross ply with a dual rubber compound - harder centre section to give high mileage but with softer edges to give good grip on corners.
Did 10k on BT45s on my Deauville and thought they were great. Rear wasn't new when I got it and I replaced it with another BT45 about 6k into my ownership. The front was new when I got the bike and after 10k miles still had a 1 or 2mm until it would have hit the tread-wear indicator . Never had a dodgy moment with the BT45s.
I think the BT21 is the successor to the BT020 - both radial, and I would be gobsmacked if anywone could get more miles out of them than out of a BT45.
Bridgestone's name for the BT45 is "Sport Mileage" .. presumable they call it that for a reason .
I would put BT45s on my NTV when they need replacing were it not for my obsession with wanting to support British stuff
.. Why then,you might ask, have I got an NTV and not a Sprint ST ?
A: Can't justify myself, but I think the NTV is one of the best sorted out bikes that has ever been - Honda went way over the top and seem to have done everything right on this bike - they did things they didn't need to (pro-arm) and everywhere you look on the bike you can see attention to detail that makes the thing a pleasure to own ( okay, you rumbled me - I'm a design engineer).
It's these things that attracted me to the NTV, resulted in me ditching the DV in favour of the NTV, and apart from riding the machine make me pleased to have one!
Here’s what Bridgestone say about the new BT-021:
“Having set performance standards worldwide with the renowned sport touring BT-020 (NT), Bridgestone has now gone one better. Its successor, the new Battlax BT-021, is a true luxury sport tyre, with confident front-end feel, high stability both on motorways and winding roads, strong grip on wet and dry, and plenty of shock absorption for comfortable long journeys. It beats BT-020 performance on all major criteria, including higher mileage in all riding modes.”
As I say, I’ve only ever fitted BT-020’s which have given excellent mileage on the NTV.
But this result may be artificial, because I’ve always added UtraSeal which may extend tyre life under normal use (it definitely adds to the price of the tyres at around £24 a bottle!!!).
www.ultrasealnorth.co.uk/
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Tried many type's/size's. Oversize rear is no good as the center wears out too quickly but a 140 rear does well and handle's fine. Much the same can be said for the front especially if the profile is 60 or 70 as in most current bike's.
Radials do not wear well on anything, they do grip a tad better for high powered bikes. The reason is not easly explained as most folk associate radials with good wear on cars etc. Car tyre's sit flat to the floor but bike tyre's are an entirely differant shape and have a very differant job to do which mean's the advantage of a radial to put more of a flat spot on the road by flexing gets wasted by excess wear on a two wheeler.
Modern x/ply's would grip fine for most people with mid range bike's but they are buying sporty tyre's cause that's what everyone else is useing and there is also a confidance mind game.
In other word's if we buy the sticky stuff it wont slide. How many realise that when the track is wet racers resort to more ordinary tyre's although still radials for the production type machines
Does anyone want to go back to TT100s or Roadrunner's. I wouldnt think so. Just the same the mad dog's of the eara (me included) were able to scrape pipes and stands to peices.
I got caught up in the radial way for a time also, at least up untill I had a run on an st1100 which although a tourer is also nimble. It had x/ply tyre's albeit proper modern one's and I could not fault them. It did make me think though. ST1100s, Wings and cruisers get much more miles per tyre than the radial equiped stuff so I have tried a few and am very happy with Metz Lasertec's. A whole heap cheaper than radials also. They will follow small track's in the road a little more than radials but that dont disturb me as I can see the track and know whats going on. The Lasertec I feel is the best although there is other modern x/ply's. Also check out what the tyre manufacturer recomends for your bike.
So if you want wear dont go down the radial route.
M & P do Avon Roadrider rears for £52.99, which incidentally is the tyre that Avon recommend for the NTV (i.e. not radials). My local place has quoted £69 inc. fitting to a loose wheel. Metz Lasertecs seem to be a little more expensive but otherwise comparable.
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Finally got around to replacing my BT45's
Went to shop got Avon Roadriders fitted..
£155 the pair.
Fitted fri 4th aug (41,800 miles)
So far ok.
Dont seem to follow cracks in road as easily as the BT45's (altho they were down to the limit..! )
Weathers been real sunny since then, so can't comment on wet riding.
Happy with the handling so far.
(altho i am still taking it easy on the corners, d**n those warnings about scrubbing in for 100 miles ... )
Will update when the rain arrives.
Quote:
"Yeah my VFR had BT57s on it when purchased in 2002 (it was an old tyre even then). Back tyre self-destructed in no time."
Come to think of it, the BT020 on the back of my NTV is rapidly giving up. Every day when I look at it, it's got nearer the mark. Like the BT57 I mentioned above, the tyre is actually 'peeling' bits of rubber off the centre tread. I'll be lucky if it makes it to the end of the month (payday).
This seems to be a trait of Bridgestones as they near the end of their life - you think you've got a 1000 miles or so to go but they seem to self-destruct at this point. As I do 160 miles / day I honestly doubt it will make it to the end of the week.
TBH I can't see the point of Z-rated tyres on a bike that produces 57bhp!
Earlier in this thread you questioned the notion of 36psi front, and 42 rear for the BT020 radials. And then in a later thread you said:
"BTW my NTV currently has odd tyres from when I bought it last month, Bridgestone BT020 rear, Michelin Macadam front. Doesn't seem to upset the handling / grip, although I have nothing to compare with!"
Not sure what this means? Did you fit the rear BT020 new or was it already fitted when you bought the bike, in other words secondhand? And what was the tyre pressure in the rear BT020?
Please don’t tell me it was the Haynes manual recommendation of only 33psi. If the pressure was that low then it doesn’t surprise me if it wore out earlier than expected….
Like I say we all have our own tyre preferences. On Hovis’s recommendation, I may well try the Metz lasertechs next time round. But I’ve never had any problems with BT020’s…..
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Jazz it looks like you're the front runner in the Avon RoadRiders evaluation .
Interested to hear how they shape up in different weathers and how well they wear.
( must get back to Avon and claim that commission they talked about . )
Like I said originally (as quoted above), when I bought the bike in June it was already fitted with a Michelin Macadam up front and BT020 rear. Rear pressure was at 33psi but I've since increased it to 42psi.
I don't know how many miles the tyres have done, except for the 4000 I've done since 22/6/07 (mostly motorway between Caerphilly and Swindon). It's just that in the last week the rear has shredded rubber like a crayon on hot tarmac!
Obviously with the miles I'm doing no tyre is going to last a long time, but I'm minded to try Roadriders or Lasertecs from a cost point of view if I can get similar mileage (and grip) out of them.
Everyday my confidence grows.
Fully scrubbed in now.
Bends are getting easier, around london (Crap roads)
they wander less and feel more secure.
Obviously the wet weather will provide the 'proof of the pudding'
had it out in drizzle..OK but nothing too 'monsoon' Like..
Will update as and when I can add to the details
Recommended Tyres For NTV/Revere, 110/80 front and 150/70 rear....
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Avon
ST 22 front
AV 281 rear
AV 27 front
AV 281 rear
AM 51 Hkm front
AM 52 Hkm rear
AV 45 Azaro-ST front
AV 46 Azaro-ST rear
AV 45 Azaro-ST front
AV 56 Strom ST rear
AM26 Roadrider front
AM 26 Roadrider rear
Bridgestone
Exedra G 547 G front
Exedra G 548 rear
BT 35 F
BT 35 R
BT 45 F
BT 45 R
Dunlop
K 505 G front
K 505 rear
D 205 F (Sportmax Touring) front
D 205 rear
IRC
RS 320 front
RS 320 rear
Metzeler
ME 33 front
ME 55 A rear
ME 330 front
ME 550 rear
LASERTEC 57H TL front
LASERTEC 69H TL rear
ME Z1 front
ME Z2 rear
ME Z2 front
ME Z2 rear
Pirelli
MTR 03 (Dragon GT) front
MTR 04 rear
MTR 23 (Dragon GTS) front
MTR 24 rear
Sport Demon front
Sport Demon rear
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I've got BT45's on the front and back and couldn't fault them (i do about 400 miles a week).
However, my new (to me) ntv will need both new tyres soonish and i was wondering what the comparisons are. I don't mind changing, i'm not brand loyal at all.
Is there scope on this site to run a comparison table? like a voting thing that users can give votes for a particular make?
I suppose tyres are just another variable, people like different ones for different reasons...
Tyres are a variable and everyone has their own notion. I use this word as I see many bikes being sold with tyres the new owner doesnt prefer. More often than not when it comes around to fitting replacements they mostly opt for the ones they didnt origonally prefer because they had got used to them and couldnt see anything wrong with them.
There is far too much rubbish in the press about what has the best grip etc. There is almost nothing about everyday tyres. This is of no use to every day bikers.
I put a posting on not long back and tried to stay unbiased although I do mention what tyres I am currently using. I also tried to explain why radials dont wear so good. I also have a posting about the price.
Look it up.
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I've just found and read (all of) your posts. Interesting stuff and i'll have a look at where i can get them from. Where about's do you get your tyres? I agree with what you say about 'inheriting' tyres that one wouldn't normally pick and then getting used to them. Would you mind telling me the model of tyres you use?
I currently wear Lasertec's in standard sizes.
Back on topic, my NTV has a Macadam on the front (and a Bridgestone BT020 rear for some reason) from when I bought it in June. Seem OK in the wet, but that may be because I don't trust any tyre too much in the wet!
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Got Avon roadriders a few weeks back week (5th aug)
Finally scrubbed in (warwick and back...... )
all sunshine riding until a few days ago, then wet riding
..Very wet riding ...........
So how did they do..?
Very well......
Leans in wet...No problem.
White lines......A little give but confident .
Tracking cracks..Just rides over broken roads......
All told I am very happy.
Sunny days ..sticky
Wet days ....grippy
Wear.......time will tell.
Ice and snow ...........No way am I gonna find out,
unless I have to.
(Ride out dry, snows while i am away, what can you do...... )
Each to there own, but Avon road riders?....Ok by me...........
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Great to hear the good reports about the RoadRiders. If they last well seems like Avon really have produced something for us.
My bike is still on OEM Bridgestone Exedras, and I still don't like them ..grip in wet they don't! Trouble is, I'm a bit tight, so I'm just being extra careful 'til they wear down a bit ... Mind you, they've got a lot more wear near the edges in the 1300 miles I've done on this bike so far than they seem to have got before.
Keep us posted on the RoadRiders as the mile rack up!
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Hiya all, I went with the trusty BT45's in the end....better the devil you know, etc.
although, at £140 plus £30 fitting, a bit steep (although what price do you put on feeling safe on ya bike?)
I'd be interested to hear about the Avon wear and wet performance.
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I'm on BT45R front and rear. I've done circa 5k miles and I'm pleased with them. I live in North Yorkshire and with the summer too, many of those have been (very!) wet miles.
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Got 5k out of my rear Road Rider so far - fitted August - profile not squaring off yet which is promising given that I do 160 miles a day of almost all motorway. Handling and grip seem fine, my last 8 miles home is twisty country roads so I get a chance to relieve the boredom and scuff the edges a bit. It looks like it'll easily last another 5k (the target) and probably quite a bit more. BTW the motorway stuff is usually between 75 and 90 so I'm not being too easy on it.
Road Rider going on front when the Bridgestone wears out.....
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This post was made possible due to the contributions of the following NTV members;
derbyshirebill, pops, hovis, dpmiller, jaz66, hovis, johnw, ntv2, mexicanbandit, everydaybiker, tweaker, Jake, honda and hoonose.
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